Opinions on masonite and other grounds for oils
 

Hello everyone,
I would like to ask if anyone would share opinions or experiences with using masonite or other boards or panels for oils. I purchased some masonite panels (Houston art brand) from a local art/craft supplier and after checking some major art suppliers and doing some searches on the net I was suprised to find no info on painting on panels or anyone offering masonite or other panels and I was wondering the reason for this? do they not stand up to the test of time or is there other issues?

Thank you for sharing your opinions and experience.

Masonite boards
 

I and my students, have been using masonite for oil painting for many years. A untempered masonite. First I sand to roughen up the smooth side of the board, then I either brush or roll on two or three coats of gesso.

Having said that, I would like to caution against using commercially prepared boards. All the ones that my students have tried, gave them problems with paint sticking to the slick surface. The brush ends up pulling off the paint, when you try laying layers on top they end up, with what looks like cat scratches. The oil seems to just sit on top, instead bonding to the ground. I can't even remember one student that hasn't found this frustrating, and that ends trashing the commercial boards.

It works well for medium to small paintings, I don't use it for anything larger than 18"x24" or 20"x20." Any larger is just far, too heavy to hang and ship. I find that, if given a chose, clients tend to like Linen or Canvas.

Painting Best To You!
Lei Iverson

Although I do not paint directly on masonite panels, I use them as a support for my Belgian linen canvases. I usually get tempered, double-sided masonite (smooth on both sides, my lumber yard calls them Duolux)although I have used both 1/4 and 18 inch in one or two sided.

I use an archival bookbinder's glue distributed by Demco out of Wisconisn (recommended by Dan Gerhartz) to adhere the linen to the panel. I love the rigid surface. The weight is reasonable up to about 24 x 30. Larger sizes tend to be too heavy and the surfaces more difficult to smooth; so if I am working larger, I 'll go to a stretched canvas..

Best wishes, Chris

Ive never experienced any problems with masonite. When I first started experimenting with oils, I painted on masonite panels, primed with an alkyd primer on both sides, had no problems with paint pealing, no warping, no fraying edges, chipping, none of that, and that was ten yrs ago and those pieces are still in great shape, theyve been roughed up, moved about by movers many times and not even a buckle or a scratch! Perhaps the priming is the key? especially the edges!

There is an abundance of information on grounds in the archives. Type "masonite" in the search dropdown and you will find most of them.

The following thread will be very helpful:
MDF (Medium Density Fiberboard) for large art panels started by
Sharon Knettell

I have used masonite, mdf, abs and birch plywood panels in the past. I now have standardized on Dibond panels as these are the archival panels used by many museums.

Hello Richard, do u adhere canvas to the dibond panel? Ive never used dibond before. do u brace the panel when painting large pieces and what do u brace it with?

Leslie,

I apply a coat of Sherwin Williams DTM Bonding Primer directly to the surface of the Dibond panel after a good sanding with a green scrubbie to scuff the surface. I then apply 3 coats of acrylic primer (sanding in between coats) and then paint on top of that surface.

ah I see you paint with acrylic, Richard, i guess that a whole other story. So priming with acrylic primer is out of the question for me. I think i would be more inclined to go for a more rigid surface like wood panels. I wonder if anyone has painted on dibond in oils?

Leslie,

Many fine oil artists use oil paints over an acrylic underpainting. Also, many oil canvases are acrylic gesso primed. You should have no trouble painting oils on the panels as described above.

In my post i should have used the words acrylic gesso instead of acrylic prime. My word choice certainly was misleading.

There are so many in discrepancies when it comes to oil painting over acrylic gesso or acrylic primer, an alkyd primer would be a better choice. This of course was based on an article I read at the art renewel site written by Virgil Elliot

In the grand scheme of things, the jury is still out on panels made from wood fiber particles or "flour". 500+ years of oil painting (and woodworking) has abundantly demonstrated the performance of "real" gesso (RSG, gypsum & whiting) over solid wood, both for the outstanding permanence of such panels when properly constructed, and for the likliest failure modes when not.

Since panels made from particulate matter have no inherent structural integrity (as the annular rings provide in solid wood) "masonite" panels have shown warp or deformation in the relatively short time they have been commercially available (around 70 years at most). Another difficulty is that while it's pretty easy to determine the exact composition of a gessoed poplar panel, the specifics of resins, fibers, and methods of production are all over the map when one identifies a panel as "masonite". "Masonite" as we currently know it comprises a wide range of panel stocks of different composition, density, weight and absorbency. Since easel paintings aren't usually subjected to very severe conditions, most will probably perform very well over reasonable periods of time.

Dibond or Alumalite panels promise to be far better structurally over the long-haul, since they are extremely stable and rigid, and owing to the laminations of light guage aluminum certainly will not warp or sag of their own weight, or due to ambient change. The only thing that would sink them would be the eventual deterioration/decomposition of the polyethylene core material.

I have used masonite-like hard board for some years with no problems. I would urge that you use UNTEMPERED hardboard. In the old days, when real Masonite was still being made and sold, it came in a TEMPERED and an UNTEMPERED version. Tempered Masonite contained an oil finish for outdoor use. This hot oil finish could/would leach out and attack your painting. The untempered version had no oil treatment, and thus, left nothing behind to attack your materials.

Nowadays, I can't find Masonite, so I use "hardboard" from lumber yards, Menards, Lowes, and other places like these.

Unlike many who work hard to produce a glass-smooth painting surface, I tend to leave "tracks," bumps and bubbles in my surface. I sand the smooth surface of the panel to rough it and to produce a mechanical bond for the gesso, and then apply several coats of gesso in a rather sloppy, sketchy way. Sometimes, I apply the gesso with large palette knife, or I'll press balled-up Saran Wrap into the wet gesso in order to create some texture.

But, regardless of surface preparation, I have had no problems using these panels. The rough surface I leave behind tends to wear brushes a little faster than canvas, but for a quick, easy, and cheap working panel, you can't beat these for studies, as well as finished works. I feel that by buying 4X8 foot sheets and cutting my own panels, my "cost per working panel" is around 50 cents each. Compare that to the several dollars of a regular canvas, and it certainly makes economic sense to use them for studies, or other exploratory work.

That sensible distinction is too often lost when discussing the "archival" properties of a panting support. Do you use "real" gesso (whiting, gypsum & RSG) or are you referring to the various acrylic products sold as a painting ground and generically identified as "gesso"? Most are abrasive in the extreme, and can really eat up brushes!

Richard . . . so sorry to be so long answering your gesso question.

I use acrylic gesso, and your are dead right . . . the gritty texture it leaves behind is mighty hard on brushes. But, it is this same grittiness that also leaves behind more of that "draggy" feel one gets from canvas.

I have never sanded my panels smooth in an effort to attenuate this harshness. I have, however, applied a much thinned sizing (with RSG) because it was said that sizing would eliminate this harmful drag. It did eliminate the drag, alright, but it also turned the surface of the panel into a very slick surface.

I'm talking about using a much thinned size on the surface of the acrylic gesso. Thus, the size is "on top," so to speak. I have since stopped this sizing step. I have decided that I will suffer the way acrylic gesso harms brushes in favor of the small cost of the panel as opposed to the larger cost of an equal sized canvas.