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-   -   Redacted Kimmy (http://portraitartistforum.com/showthread.php?t=2041)

John Zeissig 12-29-2002 03:29 PM

Redacted Kimmy
 
Hello, all,

I'm re-posting a modification of an oil sketch that was originally posted on another thread; this time for purposes of critique.

Since the original post, I've done a three-value sketch and re-adjusted the values in all parts of the subject. The background has remained unchanged, as has the blue blouse. The size is 9" x 6", oil on wood panel. Since I had not primed the panel the original application of paint seemed to absorb into the wood (duh!), which resulted in an overall loss of value range in the entire painting.

For the new skin tones I mixed a quantity of Chris Saper's Asian Skin Tone Base and generally followed the recommendations in her book. The new version of the painting is cooler in the lightest areas, and decidedly warmer in the shadows. There are still several things that bother me about this sketch and I wanted to get some feedback on how it might be improved. It seems to me that the underside of the chin, for one, needs a reflection or at least a better transition, but I'm not sure what to do. As this is strictly a learning exercise I'll try to implement any suggestions and post the changes.

Digital alterations are welcomed. For those who might feel they were hoodwinked by its previous incarnation, this is your chance to get even!

John Zeissig 12-29-2002 04:10 PM

Current Version
 
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This is the scan of the current sketch:

John Zeissig 12-29-2002 04:16 PM

Comparison With Previous Post
 
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Earlier scan side-by-side with new sketch:

John Zeissig 12-29-2002 04:20 PM

Resource Photo
 
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The original resource photo:

John Zeissig 12-29-2002 04:33 PM

Chin Detail
 
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This is a detail of the chin and neck area that seems wrong to me. The hot areas at the edges of the backlit hair follow Chris Saper's example from her book. Here it seems this transmitted light should affect/reflect from the nearby skin, but I'm not sure how to proceed. The poor photo is no help here.

Timothy C. Tyler 12-30-2002 01:20 PM

Darks
 
John, as I look at your photo, I see the darks are pretty unified, as I would expect. Note how the values of the hair and the blouse and the face are pretty well laced together? The effect you have here is pretty stunning and you must be pleased - it's markedly better. If you can study the subject from life, look at her and squint. Look at the entire face (light and shadow) at once. If we, or the camera peer too long into the shadows we can be deceived.

The dark on the far side of the nose ought to be barely visible and warm. I think you'll be happy with cadmium red and yellow ochre for the highlights of the red hair. I just did a sketch of red hair from life and posted that about a month ago somewhere if you're interested.

John Zeissig 12-30-2002 04:46 PM

Thanks Timothy,

I will have more chances to work this sketch from life. While the initial sketch was done entirely from the photo, some of the corrections in the current version are from direct observation of the subject (although not with brush in hand, unfortunately). The hair color will be a problem, as she

Jeanine Jackson 12-30-2002 08:31 PM

Hot Transmission
 
This has come alive beautifully!

I think the transmitted light through the hair is too hot distracting from all else.

She is lovely.

John Zeissig 12-30-2002 10:24 PM

Hot Tranny
 
Thanks Jeanine! I agree the transmission is too hot! The actual painting is a lot more subdued than it appears here. That's what I was referring to by my use of the adjective "glorious". I don't know why the scan of the latest version has such saturated colors; I use the same scanner setting for all my scans. The blouse and background haven't been touched, but they look very different in the two jpegs. The scan of the earlier version looks like the painting in the blouse and background areas. The skin tones and general hair color are pretty accurate in both versions, but the blue and red are super saturated in the current scan. I dunno!

If you can see the red streaks in the area of her left (our right) breast, I'd wondered where those came from. The paint in that area is very thin, and the red streaks are the grain of the walnut panel showing through. The walnut is actually a very dark purplish-brown, so somewhere along the line the red is getting really pumped up!

I just finished painting the modification that Tim suggested. I also found this demonstration by Karin Wells that I thought might help my chin transition so I incorporated a variation on that as well: http://forum.portraitartist.com/show...&threadid=1934

Both of these turn up the heat a little more, so put on a welding mask before viewing the next version. :sunnysmil I used Liquin medium, so it should be dry enough to scan by tomorrow.

By the way, I've been following the thread on your Polo painting, and it's coming along beautifully! I love portraits with a narrative element. That one's going to be admired long after we're all gone.

Chris Saper 12-30-2002 10:48 PM

Hi, John,

I think that the new vs old samples are worlds apart, and that your new piece is so much on the right track.

I should just mention that although I give examples in my book, every single individual needs to be considered as such, which I know you realize.

I think that the cold darks definitely need revision. (I think you might also revisit the cool darks in the nostrils, corners of the lips etc.) Recall that your resource photo is lying to you in many ways, but most of all in the shadow. Where there is skin facing skin, as in your model, there are warm tones bouncing back and forth. You need to decide how warm, how saturated, and how dark or light they need to be. Your values look close to what I would expect to see, so I think it is more a matter of hue and temperature.

In closing, I absolutely resist the idea of recipes. There is so much variation in skin color among different groups it's impossible to ever say, "This works for X". Even within similar local color of skin tones there are such powerful overriding factors (light, adjacent color, etc.),each painting needs to be considered in its own circumstances.

Best wishes,

John Zeissig 12-31-2002 06:00 PM

Hi, Chris,

I didn

John Zeissig 12-31-2002 06:37 PM

Far Side of Nose, Chin Reflection
 
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I think Tim's suggestion on warming the shadow on the far side of the nose is a net improvement. My under-chin reflection looks too heavy-handed. Also put a dab under the nose. Now the areas Chris mentioned really need attention, as do the arms etc. Oh well.

John Zeissig 01-03-2003 09:10 PM

Warmer Shadows, etc.
 
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Here's the latest version of Kimmy. This seems to be as far as I can get for purposes of online critique with respect to skin tones. I'm at the limits of my available technology. I've warmed up the areas that Chris suggested. I also added cool reflections on the upward facing surfaces in the shadow on the face and the near shoulder. Only the reflection on the shoulder is apparent in this scan. I've spent more time digitally manipulating this thing than I have actually painting it, but I can't get the more subtle highlights on the face to really show without throwing everything else off. The detail that follows gives a better idea of the changes in response to Tim and Chris' suggestions.

John Zeissig 01-03-2003 09:22 PM

Detail
 
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I think the changes suggested lead to a more lifelike appearance. Also the "pure color" reflection under the chin and nose, taken from Karin Wells' demo, are helpful. The reflection under the chin results in a "lost and found" edge situation where the transmitted light through the hair emerges from behind the chin. This breaks up what I thought was too harsh a transition in previous versions. I may not have carried the warming of the shadows far enough. One thing that bothers me is that brush strokes are not easy to see, even at this magnification, making the sketch look constipated rather than painterly. Is "constipainting" a legitimate term?

John Zeissig 01-03-2003 09:33 PM

Summary of changes
 
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This is just an overview of the development since the first post.

John Zeissig 01-03-2003 09:45 PM

Three Value +-
 
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This is a three value (four really, given the section at the back of the hair) version that makes it easier to see the (defective in my view) composition. I think there needs to be more background to our left, and it won't do to just cut off some on our right. This has been a good lesson for me and I'd like to revisit this pose/concept some time in the future.

Chris Saper 01-03-2003 10:57 PM

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Hi, John,

Please forgive me for not being more clear before. The diagram below shows the areas of cold whose temperatures need to change. Where living skin meets living skin, areas are dark, but warm. You won't be able to see this in photos.

John Zeissig 01-06-2003 09:41 PM

Warmer
 
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Hi Chris et al.,

I made corrections by warming up the shadows indicated by the arrows. It should have been obvious to me from the prior detail, but I guess sometimes you just have to put it in baby talk. It may not show on screen, but warming the shadows in those areas makes a definite improvement in the painting. I plan to do a full-figure painting from life using this model in a similar pose, and these lessons will really be crucial. I want to thank you all for your amazing generosity in taking the time to help me with this sketch and other work I have posted. I have friends here who do figurative painting, but they are not able to do critiques in the kind of depth and specifity that is available on this forum.

John Zeissig 01-06-2003 09:46 PM

New Detail
 
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Changes

Jeanine Jackson 01-06-2003 10:18 PM

Beautiful
 
May I simply say this has turned out beautifully?

I look forward to seeing the full figure.

John Zeissig 01-07-2003 04:00 PM

Where Credit Is Due
 
Thanks, Jeannine,

Flattery, of course, will get you everywhere with me! But to give credit where credit is due, the subject here is an extraordinary woman. Another artist once described her as "full of character and light". There's nothing like having a good-old-fashioned muse to work from!:thumbsup:

And if you guys hadn't given specific names to my vague dissatisfactions, I'd still be scratching my head or bogged down with indecision. Well, it's only a study, but I'm looking at things differently than I did a couple of weeks ago.


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