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-   -   Copy of Rembrandt's "Herman Doomer" (http://portraitartistforum.com/showthread.php?t=2113)

Chantal Faurer 01-11-2003 02:28 AM

Copy of Rembrandt's "Herman Doomer"
 
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After a lot of browsing and reading, I'm finally posting something: this is a copy of Rembrandt's "Herman Doomer" that I painted at the Metropolitan Museum of Art. I participate in the copyist program, and this is one of several copies I have painted. My copy is 21" x 27" (one of the requirements is that the size be either reduced or enlarged by at least 10%) and it is oil on masonite board. I reduced the size by cropping some of the background space and tried to maintain the original size of the head.

I ran out of time - the copy permits usually last for a month, and I was right at the end of my second permit and trying to wrap it up- so there are some things I didn't get to resolve, such as the detail in the lace collar (mine is greatly simplified compared to Rembrandt's). The experience at the Met is really wonderful - I also copy from reproductions at home and there is nothing like standing right in front of the painting!

Mari DeRuntz 01-11-2003 02:42 AM

Wow! Simplified but beautiful. A couple of things, please describe your experience as a copyist in the museum. What is your most interesting experience? Did people bother you with questions constantly, or are the hours that you're permitted to copy "non-peak" hours.

Our local museum doesn't have a copyist program in place; do you have any advice for me when I approach them? Do I speak with the registrar?

Also, how did you approach the task, once you had the museum logistics down? Did you research Rembrandt's palette? Ground? In other words, very nice copy! And please elaborate for those of us who want to train ourselves in the same academic manner.

Chantal Faurer 01-11-2003 03:33 AM

Copying at the Met
 
The copying experience at the Met has a number of guidelines. There is an application process, and the hours are 12-4 Tues to Thurs, avoiding the busy weekend hours. Your set up has to be a certain number of feet away from the painting, you must have a drop cloth, and while working on the painting you must leave it with the education department. (Many of the rules seem to be insurance that you're not trying to create a forgery. )

There is definitely a lot of attention from the museum visitors and tourists. Sometimes huge crowds gather. I've moved backward only to step on people standing behind me! Some people have little concept of personal space and want me to stop working and pose for pictures (I don't!), but most are friendly and considerate. After getting over the intitial nerves about painting in public AND in the Met, I started to enjoy the audience- I also realized the situation can be a business opportunity, and when I copy now, I've just started bringing business cards. The closer to the finish you are, the more people get excited.

Looking at my image now on the screen, there's so much that got lost. In person, the background gradation is much smoother and there's more detail visible in the hat and coat. But that's the nature of reproduction! I also always remind myself that a really strong painting should hold up under any reproduction or viewing situation...something to shoot for.

I do a lot of research when I do a copy- I went to The School of Visual Arts and one of the teachers that I studied with taught portraiture in terms of old master techniques and was with me at the museum when I started copying. I did 2 Rubens copies and I am currently in the middle of a Van Dyck, and I feel that the research I did for those paintings may have been more accurate in terms of technique than for this Rembrandt. What I really want to copy is a Sargent, but the paintings available at the Met are too large (heads too high up) and in an inconvenient area.

The ground I used was an umber wash, and the pallette very basic- titanium white (I don't use lead white because of health reasons), yellow ochre, venetian red, cadmium red (in place of vermillion), alizarin crimson, burnt and raw umbers, and ivory black. I based my research on this painting on information I had on other similar paintings, but found out after there was more accurate research I did not have access to until I was done.

Also, I used a controlled, pre-mixed palette. This is the method I was trained in, and I adapt it to the old master pallette colors.

If you are interested, I can dig up my notes and research sources - for Rembrandt, the Rembrandt Research Project is a big resource, as well as a number of books.

Enzie Shahmiri 01-11-2003 08:25 PM

Chantal,

The painting turned out very beautifully. I knew that the Louvre has a copiest program, but it never occured to me to ask if our local museums offer such a program as well.

Please share with us who in particular has to be asked for, when making inquries about such a program. I would love to do such a study at LACMA.

Chantal Faurer 01-12-2003 03:28 AM

Enzie,

At the Met, the contact is the education department; it may be different at various museums, but it is definitely worth investigating! I have been to the Norton Simon (which I believe is in Pasadena?) and I recall a wonderful Rembrandt there. I know the LACMA has some good Rubens. Good luck!

Rochelle Brown 01-12-2003 08:13 PM

Chantal,

I'm really excited for you. I've copied a couple of Rembrandts but for me the time restrictions you mentioned would have made it very hard. If it's OK,I have some questions for you.

Would you find it difficult to use a photo-reproduction after being able to work from the real thing?

Do you plan to re-apply for the copy permit?

What brands of paint did you use and have you read many books on the subject?

Chantal Faurer 01-13-2003 10:07 AM

I have actually interspersed copying at home from reproductions with copying at the museum and while I have had good experiences, unless you have carefully compared your reprodution to the original in person, it can be hard to control how far off you're going from what the painter did. A few years ago I tried copying "The Calmady Children" by Lawrence from a poster, which showed the two girls in front of a deep, umber/black background. I went to the museum and saw that the girls are portrayed against a deep blue sky!

As for continuing at the museum , I am reapplying to finish copying a Van Dyck virgin and child that I started before the holidays.

The brand of paint that I am using right now is Winsor and Newton- I plan to move to Old Holland at some point, but Winsor and Newton is reasonably priced, and for now and until I can afford the really good stuff, it's worked well for me! I put most of my art supply money into the brushes- I am a believer that you can do a good painting with low quality paint as long as you have good brushes, but not vice versa.

There are a several good books on Rembrandt's technique: check out
"The Painter at Work" by Ernst Van De Wetering, "Rembrandt/Not Rembrandt in the Metropolitan Museum of Art", and also the National Gallery in London published "Art in the Making- Rembrandt" by Christopher Brown and David Bomford.

Karin Wells 01-13-2003 10:20 AM

Could you post a photo of the uncropped original?

When you copy, I suggest that you copy the painting in proportion, i.e., don't crop. The Old Masters have much to teach us about composition. I think that you missed an important lesson by cropping this portrait.

After photography came into common use, "close cropped" figures seem to have become the standard that we see in the popular media. Photography is not painting of course but unfortunately our eyes have grown used to the way this looks.

The Old Masters knew how to use negative space in painting to good advantage. Cropping really will destroy the composition of fine older works of art by the Masters and ought to be avoided.

Other than the crop, I think that you have done a fine job on this copy.

Chantal Faurer 01-13-2003 10:45 AM

Thanks, Karen, I completely agree with you on the cropping issue - the negative space is a huge part of successful compositions!

The reason I did crop was under direction from my painting teacher- he wanted us to maintain the original head sizes in our copies. He encouraged us to do separate compositonal studies, and stressed that the work we did in the museum was not to create a finished piece but for the purpose of studying the painter's technique. When I look at the cropped copies I've done, the appearance of space closing in on the subject is unpleasantly disconcerting. The current copy I am working on is uncropped, and definitely makes more sense to me visually!

The image of the original painting that I have on my computer currently is black and white, but I am going to post it following this for compositional purposes.

Chantal Faurer 01-13-2003 10:53 AM

"Herman Doomer"- original
 
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Here is the original painting by Rembrandt.

Karin Wells 01-13-2003 12:19 PM

Wow, what a difference good composition makes! Sadly nowadays, you seldom see such "headroom" allowed in a painting.

I'm just curious...do you have any idea why your instructor felt that the headsize was so important to maintain at the expense of composition?

Rochelle Brown 01-13-2003 02:30 PM

Chantal,

If you have time you may enjoy the debate located on this thread: http://forum.portraitartist.com/show...=&threadid=746 about "Rembrandt's Sparkle Effect".

Chris Saper 01-13-2003 03:41 PM

Note:

You can begin your search for books on Rembrandt here: http://www.portraitartist.com/bookstore/rembrandt.htm

Chantal Faurer 01-14-2003 03:00 AM

Karin,

The airy composition in the original definitely gives a great feeling of space!

I should have mentioned that The Met imposes a size restriction on canvases, so that was one part of the cropping issue. When I started doing copies at the Met, my instructor stressed maintaining the head size because his emphasis within the time constraints was on learning to paint a head in the manner of the old masters. Initially, he intended the experience to be a learning process and a study only. He also spoke about keeping to scale to help prevent losing the drawing. I have found that scaling down the painting can play a trick on the eye in an odd way, drawing-wise. Since then I've departed from that idea, doing copies of details from larger paintings and recently scaling down one composition that exceeded the museum size limit. (We can't go larger than 30" x 30".)

While I wanted to shoot for more finished pieces compositionally around the time I copied that Rembrandt, I was encouraged to let go of my ego and concentrate on the technical lessons at that stage.

Enzie Shahmiri 01-26-2003 02:39 AM

Chantal,

Thank you for pointing out the educational dept. of museums. The Los Angeles County Museum of Art offers classes weekdays and on weekends with instructors.Information can be found through http://www.lacma.org/.

Karin Wells 01-26-2003 10:32 AM

BTW, towards the end of his life, Rembrandt worked with such heavy impasto one art critic commented, "You can pick up a Rembrandt portrait by the nose!"

What fun to have copied a Rembrandt! Someday I shall make the time and do this myself. I have a lot to learn about impasto.

Rochelle Brown 02-13-2003 05:20 PM

Sigh... Poor Rembrandt, he probably died of criticism.

Lisa Gloria 09-16-2003 09:46 AM

Thank you! I never would have thought a public museum would allow me to trudge in and copy one of their works, until I read this thread. I mean, museums are for hushed contemplation, right? But after reading this I called the Toledo Museum of Art and asked if they had a copyist program. A What? After getting bounced around from person to person, I got the Registrar's Assistant who said, yes, long ago she had heard of such a thing, but nobody had ever asked. Then yesterday I got the application!

Oh my gosh I don't know where to start. They have a reknowned collection of El Greco, several Dutch, several Rossini, things like that. A new exhibition of Henrick Goltzius is coming up that looks pretty exciting! They also have Sargent's Princess Demidoff, but it's very tall, and I'm not. I don't think I could copy it without a step stool.

The rules seem quite liberal:

Work areas must be a minimum of 5 feet away from any work of art. Copyists must not approach any work of art with pencils or paint brush in hand.

Fabric or plastic floor covering not exceeding 1 yd sq must be used.

Copies must vary in size from the museum original in both dimensions by at least 3 inches. Copies must be checked in and out of the museum by the Chief Guard, and must enter and leave by the same door.

Upon finishing their work, visitors copying works of art are requested to make certain that the area in which they have been working is completely clean.

Not bad, I think? I have to say which work I want to copy, and intended days, but there is not restriction on hours apparently, and the application is renewable.

www.toledomuseum.com

Thank you for the tip!

Mari DeRuntz 09-16-2003 11:15 AM

Lisa, I'm very interested in following your follow-through on this; please keep us posted...

Michele Rushworth 09-16-2003 12:17 PM

Here is a link to an excellent article on the Art Renewal Center site that addresses this topic:

http://www.artrenewal.org/articles/2...ork/miles1.asp

Lisa Gloria 09-16-2003 01:04 PM

Inspiring! Thanks Michele. I especially liked this sentence:

Quote:

All museums should have public access to stored works, provided you make an appointment well in advance
One of the guides told me that they have a "few" Bouguereau's but that they are in storage. Perhaps after a few rounds with the Rembrandts and the giant Artemesia Gentilleschi (Lot and his Daughters, can you believe it?), they'll let me see the stacks.

I'm preparing for a show, I have to have my paintings up on September 29th. So I'll be posting again on this topic after that time.


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