Zachary, Daniel Greene's class
 

Oil, 20" x 16".

The format Daniel Greene used in class was as follows: the first morning, students were called alphabetically to select a pre-established easel position for each morning session, same model, same pose, all week. Likewise for the afternoon, except that they were called in reverse order. I got the very last morning easel position. Straight profile, full frontal lighting, no shadow pattern on the face.

My guess is about seven hours painting time. I wish I would have had several more hours to keep going on this.

I can't recall a painting I learned more doing, worked harder on, or enjoyed more.

Image.

Wow Chris, very well done - especially for 7 hours! Proof that you make your own goodwill - take your position and excel. Bravo!

You are going to show us all up at Bill's class. I still am struggling with charcoal from life.

Chris,

Where do you place your first drawing marks? And, how long do you observe the subject before these marks are made?

Michael, thanks!

Mike,

I followed everything Daniel Greene taught (as best I could). He has a direct measuring system that is a little different from what I have always used, and I think his way is easier. He measures and marks the relative distances between the top of the brow, the bottom of the nose, and the bottom of the chin.

So that is what I did, too: placed 3 little marks for the first three measurements, then measured the length of the eyebrow, eyelid, eye, philtrum, upperlip, lower lip and the start of the chin.

These are all little landmark lines, measuring all vertical lengths first, then horizontal distances. Then you match the angles, and sort of just connect the dots in an angular fashion.

All of Dan's videotapes show this very same approach, and very clearly.

Chris, from the wonderful looks of your image, you were meant to be in that position!

I was hoping that you or someone else might be able to start a new thread for us newbies on what to expect at our first workshops.

Beth, there is already a thread that deals with some of what you are asking. I'll go post some thoughts there as well.

Chris, I have watched Mr. Greene's portrait drawing video several times now, and I take exception some things he said.

First, he said that there is no way to measure widths, but they will self-measure after establishing lengths, if your angles are correct. While that works very well for him, with his considerable experience, I needed a way to measure in all directions. Greene's method provides an excellent tool for doing this:

Once the "proportions of length" are established, you basically have a yardstick which can be compared to any other lengths in any other direction. If you want to know the width from the corner of the eye to the ear, hold up your pencil and compare that width to the lengths that have already been established. It may be the same as the length from the base of the nose to the brow, for instance.

With all the emphasis he placed on measuring, I'm not sure why he stops after the vertical measurements are established. Of course, a thinking person can draw these conclusions easily, so no harm done, but I'm curious why he takes this approach.

Jeff,

Since this thread was in part introduced as an illustration of the application of Daniel Greene

P.S. Sorry for butting in on your thread, Chris! I like the painting a lot. My first painting in Greene's workshop was of exactly this profile -- of Greene's father-in-law, actually, a character who has shown up in some of Greene's "Subway Series" work. And it wasn't by choice for me, either, but we happen to share the same initial letter in our last names and, well, you've already told the rest of that story.

Chris,

I very seldom have much to say, but, had to respond.

This portrait is so awe inspiring. Tremendous work.

I know it is in oil and not pastel, but the colors you chose are beautiful. I was wondering if perhaps you could share your palette?

Daniel Greene is one of my most favorite artists. What a wonderful treat to have studied under him. I have been working with his pastel videos, "Erika" and "Jim" and you have definetly captured the "Greene" techique taught but still remained Chris Saper.

Thank you,
Geri

Steven,

Sorry I made you type so much, especially since we already agree on most points. I never measure very small distances by any method than my own observation. I'd give up on drawing altogether if I felt I had to do that. And I do try to use Greene's method as closely as I can, but you can't beat good old fashioned measurements for the major stuff, like placing the ear in the right spot, or getting the skull size right.

Major measurements are the only ones you can (or need to) measure with any certainty.

Steven,

Thank so much for providing an excellent and most thorough response to Jeff's inquiry. I agree with your description. I also think that, like many other very accomplished painters, Greene's eye is so well-trained, he just skips the part with the measuring. tool. Personally I need that tool. Like the carpenter's rule, I measure twice, put once. (Then I measure again.)

Geri,

Thanks. I used Daniel Greene's palette, which is as Steven describes here Most of the colors (all the earth tones plus sap green) were foreign to me, but they work. Ultramarine blue is an optional color. All of Greene's oil videos describe the mixing process. It makes a lot of sense to pastellists because it follow the idea of one hue, with six values for each of several colors. Then the decision to make is: Is it warm, cool, or ochre?

I can't skip that part, either. I did enjoy watching the video again, long after I've learned what he's on about, and seeing how even at the stage of putting the very very loose charcoal gesture drawing on the canvas, he has a mental image of plumb lines. You have to watch closely. Even though he approaches the canvas with those windmilling arms, there will be times when he'll very quickly hold the charcoal up to, say, his view of the side of the model's head, take a relative reading on some other feature -- the crook of the arm, perhaps -- and turn and do the same plumb line assessment on the canvas, and the whole process takes about a second and is all in one movement. He does it so quickly and by now intuitively -- just a quick tap on the side of the head and then his hand drops down at just the right angle to mark the arm landmark -- that you'll miss it if you haven't internalized the process a bit yourself.

Well heck, it sounds like you're both agreeing with what I said. Maybe I didn't express myself very clearly, but you both seem to measure in all directions, just as I said in my post. I never said anything about measuring small distances (not sure how you got that from my post.)

I didn't mean to take anything away from Daniel Greene's technique. I just thought that we lesser artists need to measure in every way we have at our disposal.

Now that we're all on the same page, let me say what I neglected in the first place: Wonderful painting, Chris.

Thank you, Jeff.

Beautiful work, Chris. I love your edges and use of temperature, especially on the cheek.

Richard, thanks.

I mixed all those greenish tones with cad yellow medium and ivory black, plus a little flake white.

Then warmed them in places with ochre or raw sienna.

This is really a gorgeous painting! Can you post a detail so we can see that yummy surface up close and personal?

:) Chris and Steven, thanks for the warning on alphabetical seating. If I ever take Greene's workshop, I'm changing my last name to "Aardvark" so I don't get stuck with the back of the model's head.

Detail.

Karin,

It wouldn't matter, you'd get first choice in the afternoon.

Hi Chris,

I have a question. When you paint from life, how far are you from the model? I am always too shy to go up to the model for a closer look. Especially if it is a group doing from life.

Do not be shy. It is expected that you will walk up to the model to get a closer look at what you can't see clearly from your easel.

I get as close as I can! In this particular setting there was no model crowding, so I would estimate about 8-9' or so. However, when I got to open studio this week, there were already about 10 people there, all in a big clot, set haphazardly, so I ended up three tiers back, maybe 20'. I couldn't see worth a darn, and it was an obstacle course to try to walk up for a closer look.

Since I know the model,
 

I must say Chris, this is Zach indeed!

I am probably posting too early but I am going to look for more demos from the class. I hope there will be more. This is exciting for the pose, which is so strong and such a departure from the standard portrait. I am quite excited seeing someone come out of a portrait workshop without the obligatory triangle on the shadow cheek. Your own talent and expertise make it strong but it is wonderful seeing the stretch of learning a different mode.

Dear Chris,

I don't know how I missed this one, but I really love this piece! I really like the strong contrast between the shirt and the background, as well as the pose of the subject himself. I don't know when I can achieve something like this in 7 hours!

I do have a question about the Daniel Greene's workshop (since I am going to his summer workshop). You mentioned about your name being called alphabetically in the morning and then in reverse order in the afternoon. Does that mean that you have two different poses going on in the same day (if you happen to chose a different easel?)? I don't know if this is a silly question, but as you may know, I have not been to any classes or workshops before, so I really don't know what to expect.

Sincerely,

Mai

Dear Mai,

Yes, there was one model every morning and a different model afternoons, but I don't know how the summer sessions work.

You might want to review this helpful thread.

Chris,

I don't know how I missed this thread. Congratulations on a beautiful portrait. I just love your use of color. I hope we'll be using this one on your new site.

Chris this is beautiful. It's a very classy oil sketch. Whatever you are doing here, keep doing it.

Chris and Debra,

I see that the three of us attend workshops at the Scottsdale Artists School. I recognized this model right away - he posed for the portrait sculpture workshops as well. I wish I would have made a bust of him, but since there were two models that day, I chose this lovely Spanish woman instead who was modeled over a 2 day period. Your work is stunning and a great likeness to boot!

I think I know her too!
 

She was also the model for my Sally Strand class.
My piece is not so descriptive. I think her name was Patricia, am I close?
This is from an open studio. Who did you study with... Glenna?

Hi Debra - I thought one of you might recognize her. Her name is Pat Rios - so right you are. Here is her photo. I love this painting you did of her - she is such a sweet gal.

Oh, I forgot to answer your question - this was from Eugene Daub's class - "Portrait with an attitude".

She is also an amazing artist in her own right!

I saw a self portrait she was having photographed before the best and brightest and I nearly fainted. Your work is stupendous. Do you hang out on Saturdays when they have the open sculpture studio? They keep a model for a few weeks, just never meet many online friends in person!

Yes, I know the picture you are referring to - she brought it in to show us and I thought it quite lovely also. I haven't made it down to the Saturday open studio yet, but I plan to when my book is finished and I have some time on the weekends again. Hope to see you around there!