Dailey
 

OK, this is my 10-year-old daughter. I am practicing here, so bear with me.

I like this, but I'm wondering if the shadows on the face bother anyone? Do the 2 white swing set poles bother anyone, the way they divide the picture? I would take the green one out and crop out part of the bottom. I am thinking this could be a good painting, tell me what you think.

I need to plan better. I am bothered by the fact I didnt catch "the claw" on my pregnant woman. It's become a problem I havent been able to solve sufficiently yet.

The only problem I have personally is that she looks too old to me, too, something. That could be just the mom in me, I am not sure.

Digital manipulation is welcomed.

I'll let the pros tell you about the photo, but I thought I'd let you know that you can edit your posts, even after they've been posted. Not that you need to. "Bear" is correct.

To edit, click the icon that looks like a notepad with a pencil, just below your post.

Jeff

Thanks Jeff. For some reason 'bear' looked wrong when I went back & read it. Ok, I'm no brain surgeon.

Wow Kim, you keep your kids in jail too! Your daughter is beautiful.

You know I am a sucker for these, I couldn't help but play, here is what I came up with. Hopefully it is self-explanatory. Sorry it is rough.

Beth,

Thanks, I do like it better with one of the poles gone. That's exactly what I was thinking - it looks like she is in jail. She looks older than she is and pretty - I'm thinking jail might be OK (to keep boys out), but not for a portrait. The only thing I miss from the original to your version is the other hand by her face. It looked sweet to me. What's great is that I can try her in a blue shirt like you did here and take another tomorrow. There is a definite advantage to using a family member!

Thank you Beth!

Stop. Do not pass Go. Do not collect $200, and forget this photo. You have this beautiful girl as a free model. Put a dress on her, put her indoors near a window (search the Forum for indoor lighting tips if you need to) and spend a good hour or so shooting her in different "traditional" portrait setups. Find good compositions and plan on showing off to potential clients your knowledge of value changes, creating form, depicting fabrics, light temperatures, etc.

Spend a lot of time getting the light just right. This is why I suggest moving your model indoors - outdoor light is harder to control and to paint (my own humble opinion, of course).

Don't waste time on so-so photos. Your model gets older every day and every artist alive has much less time to get it right than we think we do.

Sorry to get bossy on you.

Best wishes,
Linda

I completely agree with Linda. This is a great model but a bad photo, especially with the light being what it is on her face. It's not worth trying to "fix" and this photo's not worth your time to paint.

If I were you I would practice everything you've learned about posing and lighting, get this gorgeous young model in front of the camera for an hour or so every week and you'll have some fantastic new reference photos for a whole portfolio of knock out portraits.

OK, ladies. I hear you loud & clear! You're right. What more can I say?

I have read the posts on lighting, etc. There is a lot out there, differing opinions and I do not have any decent equipment - so I have been trying to squeak through on my back porch or outside. But, I will keep trying.

I have one complaint - I come from NH, older homes, 2 stories, nice windows. Here in TX, it's all one-story homes with the ugliest little windows all over the place. They are designed to keep the sun out since it is so hot here. I need a friend with decent windows. I do not have one in my house that would work.

Just a note:

My daughter is running around the house telling her brothers that she is beautiful, but isn't thrilled about the dress. :cool:

This little beauty had an accident last November where she fell (off an art table in storage) onto her face. She broke her permanent front teeth and 18 more breaks in her facial bones. She has had 8 surgeries so far, metal plates in the upper jaw, etc. She's a trooper. Just (hopefully) one more root canal and then the re-building of the front teeth and she is done. Then we move onto braces. When she is all finished and those fake horrible yellow things that put in for temporary teeth are gone and new pretty ones replace them, BIG ones like her natural teeth were - I'm gonna paint a portrait of her with a huge grin showing off all my money in there.:D

When I first looked at this photo yesterday, the shadow was so dark that I could barely make out a face. I desperately needed a new monitor for my computer. The brightness on the old one had faded beyond any correctability. My previous scans that I've posted on SOG were affected by my attempts to make it look right on my monitor. Yuck! Today I just went out and bought one. After various discounts, it only cost me $73 for a new larger monitor.

Anyway, I see what people were saying about your daughter. She is a beauty. Thanks goodness for modern medicine. Glad she's doing okay. Now I see the shadow as less of a problem, but I'd still avoid it.

Yes, I think I'd love to see you paint those gorgeous eyes in the light. The cocked head is quite nice though. She's a beauty! What a gorgeous family.

Thanks Jeff & lisa!
The photo is a loser, but she's gotten a good ego boost. ;)

Linda?
 

I agree about the indoor lighting by a window, I recently took some pictures of my daughter by a window and couldn't believe "I" took those, maybe I will post one or two and see if I could paint those in your prof. opinions. My question is what if you want your background to be an outdoor one? For some reason, most of my clients seem to like the little barefoot girl all dressed up and standing outside. I tend to paint very impressionistic backgrounds and only imply the out of doors, would it be feasible to take the pictures indoors next to the window and still imply that she is outside?


KIM, your daughter is BEAUTIFUL! I think the reason you think she looks a little too old is because she looks a bit serious, almost sultry, if there was even a hint of a smile I think she would seem younger.

Kim,

What a terrible experience for your beautiful daughter. Be sure to tell her she has a big fan club here on the Forum, okay? You'll create such wonderful paintings with her as your subject.


Mary,

Most of my commissioned work is outdoor portraiture, so I hear you on this one. I think outdoor portraits are terrific; I just think they're harder to do well, for a lot of reasons. Believe me, I've spent a lot of time lately thinking ("stewing" is a better word) about this. A well lit indoor portrait shows subtle value and color changes that aren't as evident outdoors. The thrill of an outdoor portrait is in the color and temperature changes; the thrill of an indoor portrait is the subtle three dimensionality of the form. (Or, the dramatic three dimensionality of the form, as the case may be.)

If you wander through the SOG gallery you can look at how different artists handle this. When I see a lot of subtle modeling in an oudoor portrait I always suspect that the subject was shot inside and an outdoor scene was inserted later. I used to be vehemently against this but (just for the record) I'm starting to recant. I really LIKE controlling everything that's going on in my painting. Besides, indoor light is more flattering to many faces. Children look good anywhere, of course. Definitely, try shooting your daughter inside and putting a landscape in the background, just to see if it you can paint it believably - so that the viewer thinks you really did paint her outside.

Color and atmosphere are so important. To me, indoors is "intense" and outdoors is "fresh and lively". I am even going so far as to use a different color palette in indoor work than I am in outdoor work. A few years ago I was concentrating on plein air landscapes and I think that experience really helped me "see" the outside. As a portrait painter you have additional challenges because you can't just go to the local open studio for practise and paint the model under indoor light (either natural or electric). You have to get a model out there in the back yard and paint some flesh from life in the fresh air, and translate what you've learned from that exercise when you paint from outdoor photos of your subject.

I was at a museum recently where there were ten (wonderful) brooding, dark, dramatic indoor portraits and one (wonderful) light, fresh, colorful outdoor portrait. I think it was a Frank Benson. I stood and watched for a while as the entering crowd invariably went and clustered around the painting that was full of light and color. Now, this may mean nothing more than the fact that the museum was in Maine and nobody had seen the sun for weeks, so everyone was pulled to the warm and fresh painting. But that painting just radiated that sense of "outside".

Personally, I'm in the process of moving subjects inside, in part because I now have the space to get a good setup. I just have to figure out how to get up there and control all that light coming from my skylights.

Sorry to ramble on like this, it's a subject I've been pondering lately.

Well, my biggest challenge to date is...
 

...getting and using good source material, until this forum I had never given it so much thought. Now I cringe at everything I used to think was ok. :o I will do what you suggest about trying it out on my own children. Keep thinking on this one and share any tips you come up with!

Linda, you raise a lot of good points. I was especially struck by what you said about the crowd at the museum gravitating toward the light-filled, colorful outdoor painting. I think that is the reason people are drawn to the Impressionists. I don't think it's the brushwork!

I photographed and painted two kids last summer outdoors but was able to control the light source by following a tip in a portrait photography book. By blocking the light above them with the roof of my porch I was able to get softly modelled form and an outdoor background and color.

Shooting outdoors under any kind of cover, or positioning the model very close to a structure of some kind (like standing next to a wall) will give you the shadowing and rounded forms we like in indoor photos.

Michelle,
 

you just confirmed exactly what I came to the computer to ask about! After reading Linda's post I left to run errands all the while thinking about this and was thinking why wouldn't it work to take the pictures on my front porch.

I have a large old southern style porch and standing near the railing would be the same as standing by a window-correct?

Well Kim, I certainly feel like the idiot!

But I know sometimes not all families want "classic" portraits, and figured that was not what you wanted to do. I apologize if I was leading you astray, I think casual poses with kids can make great portraits.

I am attaching one that may not be technically correct after all I have learned regarding classical realism in portraiture, but it is a pastel that has brought the family much pleasure.

I am so happy to hear your daughter is doing so great!

:)

I think everyone would agree that casual portraits with kids can be great. (I really like the example you posted, Beth. Terrific color!)

The main problem I see with this photo, though, is the shadow areas across the face. Since she'll rephotograph her daughter, she'll find it a lot easier to shoot indoors. It can still be casual.

How do posts just disappear from the forum? Kimberly's second post has disappeared, so now the next two make no sense (mine and Kimberly's). Is this a fluke, or do the moderators snip away at these threads?

Jeff,

I do not see any posts missing - dadadadad the twilight zone?

Dailey thanks all her fans and bows to the crowd.

Beth,

Do not feel bad - I didn't plan casual or not casual. I didn't plan at all. I saw the 5pm light near the swing set and grabbed my daughter, that's it. I am just practicing at this point. I wanted to know if that one was agreeable or not - and I got my answer. I prefer casual ones, but I am going to have to do some formal ones for my portfolio (and to show Michele & Linda I can do it). ;)

Jeff,

OK, now I have entered the Twilight Zone. It is missing.


Someone is taking over the keyboard for a minute.

She gets her beauty from her father. -Jamie Dow

We have been having technical problems on the forum for the past couple of days. Posts are pretty much only deleted by moderators if they are offensive (the posts, not the moderators!)

What did the post say that disappeared?

Terrific, now I get to repeat it. It was me just saying what a brain surgeon I was for using "bear" - but as Jeff pointed out, bear was correct. Now I know how to edit the posts, thank you. Maybe there is a computer gremlin trying to help me not humiliate myself?

Right,

The post wasn't pertinent to the topic, but other posts referred to it, which could cause confusion.