Another size question.
 

What would be the smallest size would you recommend for a full length standing 5yo boy?

Ok, I hear crickets chirping, let me ask this a different way.

I am doing a portrait of a 5yo. Originally, the mother wanted to have him sitting in the house. I shot a couple of pictures of him outside as we were leaving and when she saw these she changed her mind. So, I am going back to take more pictures of him outside, in this spot.

When the original idea was to have him seated, we were going with a 24x36. She likes his bare feet, so she wants this in there. If she ends up still going with a standing pose such as this one, is a 24x36 too small? Would a 30x40 be big enough? Any suggestions before I go reshoot this and try to talk her into something bigger and ultimately more expensive?

Mary,

Take your photo and measure the head vertically. Call this measurement 7" (or whatever you feel comfortable with). Now, extrapolate that measurement over the entire vertical of the photo and you will have the size of your canvas.

If I've got the math right this calculates to roughly a 38" canvas. And it looks like you could easily add some room top and bottom.

Wait a minute, Mary, what is the price structure for your portraits? Don't you charge by body parts, not physical size of the canvas?

Remember that the expression, "that'll cost you an arm and a leg" historically refers to portrait painting.

No, I charge by size. Remember Linda, I am the weakling that has a hard time charging at all. While some people would be jumping at the opportunity to go up in size to a willing participant, I am getting the guilts.

Well, I have no math brain, so thanks for figuring this out for me. I generally do my children's heads at around 7". Based on what you have here, a 30 by 40 would be sufficient but a 24 x 36 would have him looking dinky. I think she will be fine with 30 by 40, I am just trying to make sure he looks proportionate.

I like this shot to paint from, too. Give him a bit more room top and bottom and I think you've got a winner.

Mary, what I did specifically is this ...

If you bring the photo into your photo shop software (or other software) it will indicate your photo to be so many pixels high and wide. Like the restrictions we have here for posting 400 w by 600 h.

If you set your cursor on the top of his head your program should indicate, on the (x y) axis, how many pixels down from the top your cursor pointer is (for your photo the number was 17), make note of that number. Then, move the cursor to the bottom of the chin and note the pixel position number (your photo was 117).

Now, subtract the first number (top of head 17) from the second number (bottom of the chin 117) and you will have the total vertical pixels of the head (100).

If you take that number (100) and divide it into the total number of vertical pixels (your photo was 539) you will get how many "seven inches" there are within the overall vertical length of the photo. Then, take that number (5.39) and multiply it by seven to get the vertical size of the canvas (37.73) using a seven inch head.

This is a lot harder to describe than it is to do. And, I should get extra points for doing this calculation during what looks like the last game of the World Series.

This isn't to the point of format size, but I would be a little concerned about how to avoid an "amputee" appearance in that bent leg. I think I'd lower the foot about 30% of the distance below it (it would still appear that he's resting his heel on part of the plaster critter behind him), so that you could show the shin in a foreshortened posture. If not that, then I'd open up some space between that resting foot and the leg next to it, to make it clearer that it "belongs" to the round knee.

Yes, Mike, I definitely gave you extra points for that! I'll give you even more if you look at this.

Steven, nice to see you. That isn't the photo we are going to use.
The mom likes this one.

What do you think? If you would use it, where would you crop in for a 30x40?

I like to paint anywhere from 75% to 100% life size. How tall is the kid?

If you use that precise composition, with a seven inch head the canvas will be 48 inches, doing the math as suggested above.

I don't think she is going to want one that big. 40 inches is probably as big as she is going to want to go for the spot that she wants to put it.

He is about 4 feet tall..So, I think the 40 inch will be fine, cropping in. Don't you?

If you take a little off the top and sides, creating this 516x380 image, you will be just under 40 inches if you paint a SIX inch head.

That looks perfect to me. I cant help but wish there were more interesting reflections in the windows though. I saw a beautiful sky and clouds reflected in window that I photographed recently - I am hoping for the opportunity to use it someday if it looks right.

I have nudged the mother to a 30x40, shew. Just when I thought it was safe, I get an email from her stating that she has changed her mind. Not on the size, but rather the reference photo. She switched gears on me here, we were going with a totally different reference photo, but now she wants to know if I can paint the body of the second photo posted here and make his toes not curl, and the face on the other body. ( I personally like the overall look of the first photo better)

*Sigh*

I haven't had a chance to speak with her about this request, so I want to know what you all think.

Mary,

Here is my 2-cents. First of all - do you feel comfortable using 2 different references? Do you feel you can make the toes correct in the way she suggested? If any of these answers are no, or you are unsure - I'd speak to the woman as the professional you are - you know more than her on what it takes to make a sucessful portrait. Just tell her that piecing parts of photos together can have a funky feel to it and you want hers to come out as a masterpiece - in order to do that you need one reference that you both agree on - or go into particulars about why this one works over that one... Tell her to trust your artistic experiece...blah blah blah.. ;)

I do not quite understand which refence she wants for the head and which for the body - so I don't know how to comment on that in particular.... but I say just be sure of your reasons, use words like 'longevity in appreciating the design' or 'timelessness' etc.. And be slightly firm.

I suppose if it were me I'd start out with something like "You are the client of course and I want you to be happy. From my experience though - this particular one will be a better overall design and show your son in such a wonderful light - it is really quite timeless.
Remember, this is an heirloom that will last generations, you want this to be a painting that is so well-designed that even his great-great-grandchildren, who never met him, will want it on their walls. Not only for the sentimentality issues, but because it is a great painting that stands on its own - even if you do not know your son."

How's that? Mother's! What a pain to talk to, eh? ;)

Help!
 

This is turning into a very frustrating effort.

Without going into detail, can anyone good with photoshop do something for me? The mother wants the image with the Will leaning on the planter, but doesn't like his foot up, and wants to see what it would look like with his leg down. :bewildere Can anyone take the leg off of the second photo and super impose it over the foot on the planter so that she can see if she prefers his leg up or down before we take pictures for a third time?

It wouldn't look right. His whole upper body posture is dependent upon where the weight on his feet is. With one foot down he leans to our left to balance his body over on that one ankle. With two feet down his upper body is much more squared off.

(P.S. A few hours invested learning Photoshop or one of the less expensive competitors will pay off a hundredfold for you.)

Also, part of the process of working with clients involves going into every meeting projecting a feeling of confidence about your process or the reference you are recommending.

I go through all my photos before showing any of them to the client and pick the one photo or the the very best combination of photos and say "THIS one is my favorite, and here's why." I find there's less dithering around if I'm conveying confidence about what will work and what won't. Maybe you've already done that. I don't know, since I wasn't there.

I personally really like the photo of the boy with his foot up ..."and here's why: " I like the more relaxed pose it gives his upper body, instead of the squared-off look he has with both feet down. I think it's a very natural and cute pose that kids often take, with one foot up.

It's a slippery slope an artist get get onto, dithering around when the client says,"try this" and "show me what that would look like". Pick your favorite and convince her why it's the best. You're the expert.

Michele,

I know what you are saying, but I don't think my client is understanding. We have taken over 500 pictures of Will on two separate occasions. She finds PLENTY she likes in each picture, but she finds something that she doesn't like with each one and keeps trying to piece together "this from that". She REALLY wants this particular face, and wants me to come back just to take pictures of his leg or pull from another, I was wanting someone to superimpose for me to show her how odd it would look.

As far as learning Photoshop (actually, I have Paint Shop Pro) I have tried so hard to read the manuals and figure out how to do it myself and end up getting so frustrated I want to throw the book at the wall.
I'm continually on the lookout for some local classed that could teach me, but have yet to find one.

Hi Mary,
I too like the one with the leg up - seems more relaxed and natural. Anyway, here is a quick superimposement of the leg down. Ignore the pocket hand - it's out of whack.

Thank YOU! How'd you do that? Do you use PSP or Photoshop?

No prob Mary -

Could have used either one, but I happen to have PSP open, so I used that.

1. Open each image side by side
2. Use the select tool (dashed rectangle) to select an area on 2nd image that you want to copy . Press <Ctrl> + <C> to copy.
3. Click the original image and select Edit ->Paste->As new Layer
4. The rectangle of the leg appears as a new layer on the image. Use the move tool to position the leg where you want it.
5. Click the Freehand (selection) tool. Use this tool to draw around the areas that you want to delete and hit the <Delete> key to get rid of the surrounding areas so just the leg remains.
6. Save the image as a merged jpg.

Hope that helps.

Thank you!