Is this a scam?
 

This may be silly but here goes.

I received an email from a person in the UK who said she wishes to purchase 2 of my paintings from my web site. As I do not give pricing on the site, she emailed me.

First I thought it was a joke although all looks ok. I replied ---expecting never to hear from her. Three days passed. Tonight I received her reply. She wants one of them now. She said that she would have her shippers contact me as she wishes them to add this painting to their shipping of her personal things as she is in process of moving.

She says she will send US Cashiers Check. I also have heard from the shipping co.--address of
UK shippers asking me the freight amount as she will pay for it and they need to get her payment prior to picking up the shipment of paintings from me.

Sound loko? I am assuming it is ok and cannot see what I could lose. Please anyone, give me ideas how to handle the packing (one on panel and one on canvas) she wants the panel, the exchanging of painting and Cashiers Check. I need to know if I should send something separate as far as her accepting the artwork, insurance and what if she is displeased after she sees them in life. It is a 24"x 28.

Any ideas will be most welcome.

Patt

Internet cashier check scams...
 

Hi Patt--
This may very well be legit... BUT there have been stories on the news here in recent months about internet scams involving bogus Cashier's Checks. I would recommend taking the Cashier's Check to the bank and making sure it clears (that the bank receives payment) before releasing the paintings... or at the very least talking to your bank's customer service department about the Cashier's Check system and how to make sure that you receive appropriate payment for these paintings. Cashier's Checks are not cash, and they are not as good as cash. I don't remember the specifics of the scam, but it seems to me that there were fake cashier's check involved and the victims were unaware of the scam even when they took the checks to the bank, rather they were notified that the funds to reimburse for the fake checks were being withdrawn from their accounts (or were owed to the bank) after the fact when the bank was unable to collect from false cashier's checks that were good enough to fool their tellers. Just a word of caution! The scams often involve a 'Shipping agent' such as you describe. BE WARY!

Here's a couple of links to stories about similar Cashier check scams (scroll down on the second one to read about the scam and examples)... though it 's not exactly what I saw on the news... If you do a google search on 'Cashier Check scam' tons of items come up. . .

Overview of Scam (Nigeria is commonly used, but UK is as well)
More about Cashier's Check scams (with examples)

I'd be very leery of this 'customer'.

Cashier Check information (from the 1st link above)
 

Attorney General Salazar Warns Consumers To Be Wary Of Cashier's Check Fraud Scam


The so-called "Nigerian Letter Scam" has been around for many years. Government agencies, as well as consumer advocacy groups, have repeatedly warned citizens about this scam and its numerous variations. For example, in response to the scam

I had a recent email from a fella wanting to buy a print for $200. I gave him the price and told him I'd accept a personal check and ship it when the check cleared. He emailed back that he'd be sending a cashiers check for $1,000 and would I please send the remainder to his shipper along with the print. I replied - no - I only accept checks for the exact amount. He emailed back about how much he wanted the print and that the check will cash - he promises. I replied no again. He emailed back again saying if I was worried about taxes on the amount of the check going through my bank account that I could take the approximate taxes out as well. I said no again and repeated my first response. He tried at least 4 more emails until I finally told him he was wasting my time and not to email me anymore. I figure it must have been a money laundering thing or something. There is no legal reason why this man could not cash his own cashiers check that he claims he was paid with.

Silly people.

Pat - just make sure it's for the exact amount including shipping.

Terri and Kimberly,

Thank you so much for the warnings and advice. I truly will be leery. My plan is to go with it, I have read much about these scams and will accept the cashiers check , in amount ONLY. The warning tells us to wait for the cashiers check to clear the bank, the bank has its money and then ship the item. If the buyer does not want to do this then I will know.

Thanks so much. The old saying that I go by is ," if it seems too good to be true, it probably isn't." I was hoping but still being careful . This was the reason I wrote to the Forum because there is so much of this going on and the Forum members are so varied that I was sure to get response.
Call it MY GUT FEELING.

Thanks again

Patt

This will not be sufficient to protect you. Talk with your bank about what it means when they tell you that "the check has cleared". There's been a lot of discussion relating to these scams about banks that tell their customer that the check has "cleared" and then turns out to be a bogus check. You're still out the money (the bank won't take responsibility for it) and you've already shipped the painting. Ask the client to wire the money to your bank, perhaps.

Pat,

This is too good to be true. I would be very surprised if this was legitimate. I used to be a commodity trader and was constantly fending off these types of scams. These people are professional at what they do, it's their job they do it all day long.

I've read a lot about these scams and cashiers checks that are found to be bad 6-8 weeks later. A lot of these scams are now coming out of the UK. Nigeria is the other notorious place for these scams. I would be very, very careful. Could you post the exact email that was sent to you please.

The original e-mail
 

Cynthia, here is the first one---I will post yet a couple more since we are still communicating.

*******************************

Hello Patt Legg ,

My name is Mary Wilson from the United kingdom,I am interested in buying some of your art work,,they are all beautiful.I want to use them as a decoratives in our new house in the Republic of Benin . beautiful,I am interested in buying these paintings to purchase from you.

(1) "Just The Two Of Us" Oil 30 x 40
(2) Storm On The Horizont" Oil 22 x 28


Kindly get back to me with the total price of the selected paintings excluding shipping cost,I have informed a shipping company that will be shipping some of our other house decors.

I am paying you with a US C- check.

I am looking forward to your response.

Best Regards,

Mary

Thanks out ther guys-- my hubby says not to worry about it , give it time to clear and what have I got to lose. Of course, I hope it is so.

I asked her how she found my site. Her reply was, on National Art Registry------I think that is the name of it-----I have the button on my site.

More letters to come

Patt

Ugggg -that color
 

Sorry Cynthia, can you correct that color. I did not realize how it would not show.?

Patt

Hello Patt,

Thanks for your e-mail.I am sorry for getting back lately. I went for a medical check up due to I am expecting a new baby girl in the few weeks.

I will like to proceed with the purchase of the paintings,Due to the shipping charges of the paintings and some other house decoratives with the shipping company,I am interested in buying only item #2 for $1750.00 ( seventeen hundred fifty dollars) . I have instructed a shipping company to get in touch with you. Have you been in contact by them? Please let me know.

I am paying you with a cashier's check,It can be easily be cashed at any nearby ATM cash store since it is a cashier's check,Please advise if you have any ATM cash store in your location.

I look forwarding to hear from you ASAP.

Best Regards,

Mary.

The second one above.

Hi Patt,

Thanks for your e-mail. I will like to proceed with one out of the two paintings i.e My large oils Pinting #2 for only $1750.00,Are you giving me any discount on this? Please let me know.

Please kindly send to them the total amount of shipping ASAP,so they will contact me on how to proceed with the payment. We have some other house decoratives with them that they would be shipping to us in our new house in the Republic of Benin.

I understand that you will recieve payment in full before releasing the art work . I am sending you a Cashiers Check for the payment,which you can have cashed the same day you receive it arrives.

I am expecting my second child. I found your art work at World artist Registry.

I am looking forward to hearing from you ASAP.

Best Regards,

Mrs Mary White.

This is the last and final one that I received today.
Please let me know what you think.

I checked up on some scams for Cashiers Checks. Many times they are writing them for more than the amount and then asking you to send the balance back to them.

I wish there was some way to tell of it's origin --the email itself.

Here is the first one again. Sorry!!!!

Hello Patt Legg ,

My name is Mary Wilson from the United kingdom,I am interested in buying some of your art work,,they are all beautiful.I want to use them as a decoratives in our new house in the Republic of Benin . beautiful,I am interested in buying these paintings to purchase from you.

(1) "Just The Two Of Us" Oil 30 x 40
(2) Storm On The Horizont" Oil 22 x 28


Kindly get back to me with the total price of the selected paintings excluding shipping cost,I have informed a shipping company that will be shipping some of our other house decors.

I am paying you with a US C- check.

I am looking forward to your response.

Best Regards,

Mary.

I would talk to your bank to get their thoughts on what you should do.

Patt--

This has got to be a scam. Did you not notice that her name changed from Mary Wilson in the first letter to Mary White in the third???!

The shipping company, 'shipping other household items' is a red flag as well. Guaranteed, she will try to get you to pay the shipping company out of the same cashier's check she sends to you with 'enough for all that shipping' as well. That will be money out of your pocket when the Cashier's Check turns out to be a fake after all. Don't fall for it.

Another tip-off - they typically say ALL your work is beautiful. Ask for a phone number and physical address - bet she won't give you this information or if she does, it will be fake. These scammers are getting more and more clever. I feel very strongly this is a scam.

Terri

What did you say your day job was "detective"? :) Very clever and until I put them together, I had not noticed but RED flags were going up everywhere. Now--here's a clincher is the email from the "shipper" with even one other name:

Good day Sir/Ma,

I received an e-mail from Mrs Treva that we should work with you to ship some artwork paintings from you to her new house in Africa very soon.

Please get back to us with full details of the kind of art works to be shipped, As she advised, we will be picking up the art works from your gallery. we need to know the weight...e.t.c so we can send our bill to her for payment with her other house decors.

I look forwarding to hear from you soon.

Thanks

Ben

For: UKSHIPPERS :thumbsdow


The thumbs down is from me.

Thank you all for your support. Please tell me that you UNDERSTAND my excitement. I thought all of my hard work ( you can catch my list under Time Management thread) had finally paid off with managing my own site and all.

This is off subject but actually connected too. Question :? I am trying to add a PayPal button on my site. I understand that is fairly ok. What do you think? That way CC and bank accounts are already cleared by them.

Thanks again so much
I will write one more email to Mary Wilson, Mary White and Mrs. Treva. Wow :( I have been duped.

Patt--
So glad you saw through it in time. I was worried for you. :)

By the way, before you respond back to 'them'... you may want to contact local law enforcement and possibly other officials... the Colorado attorney general's warning on these kind of scams notes that:[INDENT][B]"Citizens are warned that fraudulent cashier

Thanks Terri

About that WV law enforcement.---well, let's put it this way. We (my hubby and I ) were in CC Identity Theft sort of. By that---I mean we were getting charges and weird phone calls for 8 months about things. Long story short----luckily my hubby checks CC purchases ver-r-r-r-y closly and we stopped them short but never found out how or who. We reported to local law enforcement and they just kind of said basically --hope it doesn't happen again and we'll look into it. They won't but I am seaching (via internet) as to how I can tell the other pros in law about it.

I was worried about me too. ;)

I've been reading this thread with interest and was worried about you too. I'm so glad you posted here and everyone caught the scam before you got stung. I'm disappointed for you also, and wish you a real sale to make up for this bull!

Jean

Patt,

There is a way - if you are using Outlook express, right click on email, choose 'Properties', and then "Details'. It contains the e-mail header (usually hidden from a user) with the path (each step labeled "Received") e-mail went through... Find the last "Recieved" - it is the one you want to look at. It contains computer's IP or name.

You can use something like http://www.geobytes.com/iplocator.htm to find the location by IP.

Patt,

Thank goodness you weren't suckered into this. I counted once and I get over 70 scam mails per week. I don't mean spam, I really mean scam. Many are nearly identical to this one you received. Don't let them fool you. They are not even from UK but are routing their scam spam through that region (you'll notice the bad grammar, obviously english is not their native language).

Other tip offs to scam mail are -
There seems to be a complete lack of interest in the work itself. The author is only interested in payment and shipping details.
There is usually a sense of urgency or certain circumstance where they need the item shipped right away (they are in the process of moving, they have a baby due in 2 weeks - yeah, right)

They always offer to have their shipper contact you to arrange details.
These are just a few - the list goes on. I have seen so many of these I am just sick to death of them. I am just sorry that there are trusting people out there that fall for these theives and liar's hateful tactics.

To protect from scams like this, I would recommend using wire transfers under the following conditions:

1 - set up a bank account with the minimum deposit needed to keep the account open. This will be used only for your wire funds receipt account.

2 - If possible have restrictions put on the account that no wire transfers out of the account are to be permitted. This is an additional safety step as you will have to provide this account number to the sending party. If they are crooks, this will keep them from doing a reverse transfer.

3 - As soon as the money is received, remove it from the account and put in your normal bank account. Leave only the minimum deposit in the wire mail account

Richard and Heidi,

I appreciate all that you have said. Richard, I had already checked with my bank and they gave me the same advice that you gave here. Very good idea.

Heidi, everything you said rang a bell with me. That, I suppose, was the basic reason that I wrote here on the Forum. I felt Red flags up immediately but then I was told that I was too timid and skeptical old sad thing of "maybe they are right, maybe it IS ok?"

Well, my gut told me it was not right. I have written one last email telling them that they should wire me and for them to let me know and I will give information. Thus far-------I have heard nothing. Just as I had thought.

Thanks to you all for all of the support and ideas. I really did know not to jump in with both feet and throw "common sense" away but that old " I wish it was so" had definitely crept in. :thumbsup:

Patt, don

The following is another recent example of this type of scam:

The e-mail address was: [email protected]
Titled: ART ORDER

I get a lot of that kind of email too.

Mike and Heidi

You both are absolutely correct. I will say that I absolutely was not sold on it being authentic at all. Deep down , of course, I wanted it to be but my gut told me forget it. I think the hubby was just wishful thinking and was wanting me to test this person ---not send any painting----get the money, yadda, yadda yadda. Personally, I am happy to say that I had to just let them know that "if" there was to be a transaction, then it would be my way. I haven't heard another word.

End of story.

I want to thank all of you for your support in this. It always helps to put it out there and see how others respond about situations. That is why this Forum is so great and other reasons too of course.

A sigh of relief :)

New twist on the same old scam
 

Just a heads up for those of you who teach. I regularly get the usual scam mail where someone wants to "buy" a piece of your art, but lately, I have been getting the same sort of scam mail from these same types of idiots similar to this example:
______
My name is Wang, I have a son who is interested in learning modeling the head structure and facial features with you, So i mail to confirm if you can teach my son .

I will like you to tell me your qualifications and how many years you have been teaching modeling the head structure and facial features.

Moreso, i will like you to tell me how much it will cost me for 6 months and your phone number for easy communications and your mailing address where the payment will be send to.. As i'm ready to make all neccessary payment as soon as possibe.

Thanks and hope to here from you soon.

Wang Williams.

NB: He is a Beginner...

--------

Common tips it is a scam -
No information or contact address included
Broken english
Will be from a free account - usually Yahoo
Want your phone number
Have no idea about price, but ready to pay right away
No mention of your work, or how they found you
No dates mentioned
Usually do not address you by your name

Of course the scam will be the old counterfeit check, want your account number to "wire" you the money (and drain your account), or they will cancel right away due to some unforseen emergency and want you to send the money back right away (before the bank determines it is a bad check).
Anyway, teachers beware.