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-   -   Wow, I'm the first!! (http://portraitartistforum.com/showthread.php?t=853)

Renee Price 05-25-2002 04:53 PM

Wow, I'm the first!!
 
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Here is the resource photo for a portrait I haven't started. It is an old photograph so there is no way I can take more pictures of the little girl (now an adult). I know that the facial planes will need to be shaded more dramatically than what is shown in the flash photo. I do not plan to use the color of the carpet she is sitting on and would like to add another element behind her.

Thanks,
Renee Price

Mari DeRuntz 05-25-2002 11:34 PM

This is indeed an unusual perspective for an old portrait photograph! I like the pose. Good luck with the lighting. If it's conventient, post some of your exploratory sketches/thumbnails.

I think this is going to be an interesting topic....

Sandy Barnes 05-26-2002 06:38 AM

Renee, I too am often faced with this challenge. It will be very interesting to see what you do with it. I have been told that you cannot add shadow and light to flash photography and have it possibly come out looking realistic. I have one in the works right now that I have shelved. If you can paint life into your little girl perhaps it will give me the confidence to finish mine. :) Good luck and keep us posted.

Gisele Zeitler 05-26-2002 11:21 AM

This response is my first post here, ever!
 
Renee, what a charming photo! I agree that I would not attempt to add shadow where there is none. Just stick to what you see, keep the edges very soft, and you should be able to capture the charm of the little girl and the unusual pose.

One thing you might try, however, is to edit the photo itself before beginning. To show you, I copied the photo into my editor, and increased the contrast by darkening the darks and lighting the lights. I left the middle tones alone. This was not done to enhance the photo, just to give you another resource in helping you to find where the shadows are. What do you think--is it at all helpful? (I will attempt to attach this photo now, but since I've not done it before, bear with me if it doesn't show up.)

Gigi

Gisele Zeitler 05-26-2002 11:30 AM

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Okay, I'll try again.

Renee Price 05-26-2002 11:43 AM

Gisele,

Thanks for enhancing the photo! I printed the copy and will use it as a reference for shadows and highlights.

Renee Price

Marvin Mattelson 05-26-2002 11:58 AM

Be aware!
 
It is very important, whether you work from photos or life, to analyze what is happening from both a structural and lighting point of view. When working from preexisting reference material you need to play detective to figure out what is what and then augment your findings with the necessary additional information.

Poor reference is not a justifiable excuse. The great paintings were all painted by combining great reference material along with formidable knowledge. The greatest artists were those who were the most clever at figuring out how to get the information they required.

Were you aware that the photo you are working from has two light sources? The main light is coming from the upper right and is illuminating the face as well as the entire figure. The second light is coming from the far left, filling in the shadows of the dress and the hair, essentially flattening out the form. Evidence of this are the two shadows cast by the tail of the belt. The face is pretty much unaffected by the second light.

If it were me, I would set up a similarly dressed doll or child in a similar position, to get a better sense of the true values of the shadows on the dress and to get a shadow shape on the hair. With out the shadow shape on the hair the head will never have form.

Photographers often use multiple light sources to cover their basic lack of understanding. I personally use two light sources to photograph my sitters. A main light off to one side for form and a second light close to camera position to control the ratio of light to shadow density.

Paint from knowledge and the force will be with you.

Chris Saper 05-26-2002 02:12 PM

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Hi Mari,

This is probably the one of the best possible introductory posts to this section because it is absolutely one of the poorest source photos possible - and the type of photo I am sure most of us have been asked to paint at one time or another.

However, there are several things I would do in order to make this the best painting I could.

1. Commit to some type of value plan (see image below as one example) that accomplishes these things: a more interesting placement of the figure; movement and focus to support the center of interest; a basis for separating values.

2. Consider an edge plan. The source photo has the fundamantal design challenge I think of as a island in the center of the page. By limiting your sharp edges to a couple of areas along the hair and eyes, and using a single sharpest edge, (probably on the inside edge of the far eye, or on the near eye), you can reinforce a stronger design into your piece.

I think you should also lose most of the edges along the bottom of the skirt. (Look at Bart Lindstrom's web site, for the watercolor portrait of the litle girl in the white/pink dress-masterful use of edges!). You still need to offer some explanantion for this area though, but I think you can do it through the interplay of colors slightly different in temperature, but the same in value.

3. Decide on the color temperature of your light source, and its primary direction. In this case, I would probably assume a warm light source, where the shadows, as a result, will run cooler. Because there is so little value differentiation in the source photo, it is difficult to introduce effectively since you don't have much visual info to rely on in the first place. Instead, I would probably keep values of light and "shadow" close in the face, and use temperature changes to suggest form...that is, warmer skin tones on the planes that face the light source, cooler tones on the planes that face away from it.

4. Color. The color is so poor in this photo, you might be better off having the photo printed in a good quality Black and white, to avoid the temptation to try to replicate color in the photo.

That being said, this is the type of photo I work very hard to talk someone out of using, asking instead to look through old photo albums for better source material. Some, especially the "lollipop-on-a-stick" school photo variety, I just decline. Sometimes though, when there is a pose or expression I feel has some merit, I will go ahead with. You have some gesture and expression here which is redeeming. Good luck!

Chris

Renee Price 05-26-2002 08:28 PM

Marvin,

Thank you for the information about two light sources. I am not familiar with photography and assumed the photo was washed out because it's around 30 years old.

Chris,

Thank you for your input. I have read your book and have found it very helpful. (For those of you who haven't read her book, do yourself a favor and buy it). I have done some thumbnail sketches today and made a few decisions concerning tonal values and light temperature. I agree with warm light and cool shadows. I like your suggestion about the edges. I think a good focal point would be the girl's right eye. I'm planning to start the underpaint this week, so any and all suggestions are welcomed!

Thanks again,
Renee

Renee Price 06-16-2002 06:46 PM

Hi everyone,

Please check out the underpaint of this picture in the critique section.

Thanks,
Renee


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