So you wanna be a pro?

[Debra Norton]

Karin, thank you for the good advice. I've been lurking in the background reading the posts for a couple months now and decided it would be a good idea to register so I can communicate too.

I am an amateur wanting to go professional. My husband, grown children, and extended family are supportive of this. Some of my friends aren't...... How do you deal with people who don't take you seriously, and even try to discourage you? I think the reason these friends are trying to discourage us is that we're planning on moving away for four years so I can attend an atelier. Our motivation for moving is to be able to give 100% of my attention to learning, which would be very difficult to do here. I would appreciate any insight on dealing with this. Thanks.

[Debra Norton]

Thanks, Karin, for the kind encouragement. It's nice to know I'm not the only one who's gone through this. And you made it through! I think that the "abrupt shift" is what's getting to my friends. To me and my family it doesn't seem abrupt, because they've seen me working over the years, but it's something I've kept pretty quiet about outside my family until recently. I am one of those "housewife and mommy types" you mentioned, and to make the stereotype even worse I've been a homeschool mom for the past 15 years or so. No wonder some of my friends think I'm crazy. I'm so glad my husband doesn't!!

I'm working on a portrait of my grandson that I should be able to finish in a week or so and I'd like your opinion on it. I'll post it when I'm done - if I can figure out how to do it. My disc drive isn't working right now and I may have to do it from my husband's computer, which could be a problem. Thanks again.

[Debra Norton]

Steven Sweeney wrote:

In any event, I'd be glad to write up a description of the sight-size set-up for you if you'd like. It would get rather lengthy, so I won't post it here for now. (A first for me!!)

Steven, I would be interested in that too, as I'm sure many others would be.

Debra

[Margaret Elvin]

Karin,
I like your idea for a new section as you stated in your last post:

"Does anyone agree that a new section be created on this forum...."Copies" ("Learning Tools," "Basics," or somesuch) might make sense as a method of viewing/learning basic technique here?"

I think many on S.O.G. would benefit from such an ongoing discussion. It would also enhance learning if we could post efforts for critique. This section could function nicely as a kind of centralized repository for learning techniques and tools. People could be referred to it when issues come up in other threads. There are many who can contribute knowledge and so many who want to learn. Of course, the Critique section does perform this function too and perhaps Cynthia feels that is adequate, which it may be.

Personally, I would love to see copies of old masters works, especially oil paintings.

-Margaret

[Geri Comicz]

Steven,

This is wonderful!!! Thank you. Geri

[Nathaniel Miller]

Karin,

I appreciate your advice a lot and plan to take it. I have a year and a half until I finish my current studies, after which I plan to attend an atelier-style art school, and I've been looking for advice on how to best prepare myself in the interim.

So, here's the routine I've outlined for myself based on your advice and that of others whose advice I respect, and i wonder if you'd have any corrections or suggestions.....

I'm starting with drawing (I draw at a fair level, but nowhere near where I'd like to be)...

Copying each old master drawing 5 times, 2 exact tracings, and 3 exact (yeah, right) freehand drawings. I'll supplement this with drawing from life (my wife has agreed to pose for me....yipee free model!) probably one from-life drawing between the tracing and freehand copies for a break. I've done a coujple of copies already and it seems I learn more if I make several copies.

I'll also work/read through 2 figure drawing/anatomy books for a little while per day.

After I see marked improvement in my drawing, I'll start a similar regimen for painting practice (or should I start with painting right away?). I only wish I had more time to devote as I'm taking a full slate of classes and have a job as well.


Any comments or advice on improving this system are greatly appreciated.

Nathan

[Nathaniel Miller]

Karin,

Another question I forgot to ask.....when you're talking about O. M. drawings, do you mean any one, or are you talking more about finished drawings? I've been indiscriminate thus far and have copied anything I liked. Some have been studies where it looks like composition, etc. weren't of too much concern.

If you eventually attend an atelier, I would wait........learn whatever the method is that they teach you.....

I've done some looking and as far as drawing is concerned they pretty much all teach sight-size at first. I've given up on trying to reconstruct the method on my own as there is virtually nothing available on it, and like you said, I didn't want to develop bad habits. I'll certainly wait on the painting.

don't know how long it takes for you to do an Old Master copy........May I suggest that you trace the drawing and transfer it onto a quality drawing paper. Then in careful freehand do whatever is necessary to make your copy look exactly like the original (duplicate the proportion of the image to the paper size, match the colors, duplicate shading, etc.)

Actually it takes me a long, long time to draw anything. I do find that the third copy goes much faster than the first one, though. It's a great idea to do the transfer....something I'd never thought of. All the copies I've done so far have been freehand, small (9x12 at most), and of simple drawings with the intent to reproduce the tones and shapes, but not to re-create the drawing line-for-line the way you suggest. That being the case, I'm not sure I should post anthing I've done so far, but will post the next one. Should I put it in the critique forum?

What anatomy/figure drawing books are you using? Some are certainly better than others....

The two I'm using based on recommendations are Harold Speed's "The Practice and Science of Drawing", which is written in a style that I like and has been very informative so far, and G. B. Bridgman's "Complete Guide to Drawing from Life", which contains extensive information on anatomy, proportion, perspective, etc. and is all about the figure. I know nothing about the best way to learn this stuff, so I've just gone with the advice of people whose work I admire and/or have experience teaching.

carry a sketchbook with you and draw, draw, draw...anything and everything

Will do!

Once again, thank you very much for taking the time to help me out.

Nathan

[Nathaniel Miller]

In any event, I'd be glad to write up a description of the sight-size set-up for you if you'd like. It would get rather lengthy, so I won't post it here for now. (A first for me!!)

I've been looking all over the internet and libraries, etc. for months and found only a short, sketchy description in an online studio manual, and a mention or two on a website, so it's kind of exciting for me to read your offer to explain it.

I'd greatly appreciate it if you could do the write-up when you have time. If it's too lengthy to post, you can paste it into an email and send it to me at [email protected] (or attach it as a file if it's easier for you). Again, many thanks.

When I suggest that you copy, I do want you to reproduce the tones and shapes and not be a slave to re-creating the drawing line-for-line. I am suggesting that you trace for proper proportion, anatomy, etc.

Thank you for clarifying those points. It's good news as that's what I'd been doing, but really just for fun before, not seriously. I'll get on with the actual drawing now that I have a few good books of large O.M. reproductions.

Many thanks to Karin, Steven, Virgil, etc. for your generosity. I've got no way to return the favor unless you need help with math homework or solving theoretical physics problems.....if it ever happens don't hesitate to send me an email!

Nathan

[Nathaniel Miller]

Wow, thanks a lot for posting that Steven. It's plenty to get started. I can see how it's supposed to work, and how you've got to be really careful and accurate with the measurments. I'll maybe have time to try it out later in the week.

Nathan

[Nathaniel Miller]

I've actually done a couple of sight-size drawings now, using your instructions, Steven, with good results (simple subjects.....display of fruit, crumpled paper bag and such). I think the constant flipping between the subject and drawing really trains your eye. It seems like I got better at it even after the first drawing.

So now I'm doing sight-size drawings, old master copies (finishing a copy of an Ingres drawing now), and drawings from life in my sketchbook when time permits (also reading/working through those books I mentioned earlier to learn anatomy, etc.).
My drawing wasn't too horrible before, so after a few months of this, I hope to see some good progress.

Thanks again for allowing me to shamelessly mooch advice and instruction!

Nathan