Next portrait - Page 3

Alicia Kornick · 06-09-2002, 10:41 AM

Dear Marvin,

I know what you are trying to say, I have combined elements before from different photos. I do understand anatomy very well. I have worked as a surgical assistant for over 30 years and the human body both inside and out is commom knowledge to me. I am working part time now for a plastic and reconstructive group of surgeons. We put faces back together after they have gone through windshields or have been smashed by steering wheels. Sounds gruesome I know, but I have seen some miraculous reconstructions.

Drawing I believe is basic to good art and have also repositioned arms etc. to make the pose work. I appreciate your work on Photoshop and do agree the elements from the two poses look much better. I love the way she is holding the book and her smile is perfect. Unfortunately, the mother (who had the last word on the portrait) just loved the photo of her standing in front of the hydrangeas and chose that one for a portrait. The mother likes her little pensive look and remarked that that is how she looks most of the time, rather like she is thinking about something.

I realize that we as portrait artists not only strive to paint a beautiful work of art, but must also please the customer commissioning the work. My gentle persuasion didn't work, she kept going back to the same photo. It's not bad, but I agree it is rather blah compared to some of the rest. I also have similar shots of her in front of the flowers smiling, but no go.

Thanks for your insight, I do appreciate the experience of all who replied. The years of experience and talent of the moderators and correspondents is truly invaluable to me and others like me striving to reach our goals.

Thanks,
Alicia

Marvin Mattelson · 06-09-2002, 11:18 AM

I certainly appreciate the "please the client" dilemma. I find what works for me is getting a good sense of what the client wants. This is a knack I've cultivated during my previous career in illustration. As a result I was required to make corrections quite infrequently, a rarity indeed.

As a portrait artist I'm very reluctant to show all my photos to the client. I am much better qualified to make the best choices. After all isn't this why the hired me? Therefore I make the best, in my opinion, choices based on my sense of what the client wants and show them a restricted selection of photos. I will also show photoshoped composites because most people need to see what things look like.

If the client would ever demand to see all the photos (it's never happened), or wants a photo that I think is not good, I will explain that this is a painting, not a snapshot, and some things just will not fly in a painted portrait.

If we're at an impasse I will suggest perhaps an additional photo shoot and if push came to shove I might even bail out. For me to work on a losing proposition for six weeks would be like being in ****.

This is all hypothetical, as I said, I have found my clients to be very accommodating to my quest for perfection and in the end a great painting makes everyone, artist and client, happy.

Mike McCarty · 06-13-2002, 12:31 PM

Greetings to all, have just returned from an 18 day college tour of New England.

Regarding the above discussion... In a previous life I was a custom home builder. Large expensive homes for people with equally large opinions and egos. It was a hazardous job for many reasons and has amazing similarities to the process of creating a commissioned portrait. When I reflect on those times when I was in the most trouble it was because I had allowed the client to control the process. I became either to timid or just exhausted in the face of their will. The client does not understand all that lies before you and they will not own any responsibility for the final deficiencies, nor should they.

Alicia Kornick · 06-13-2002, 02:08 PM

You are right, I am wimping out. Will talk w/mother again. This is a better composition although not as nice as the one I like inside her room. I would rather paint this than the other standing photo.

Because I am just beginning my career as a portrait painter, I feel that I may be bowing to the customer a little too much. Mike is also right in relating that to his former career. I would never let a patient tell me how to suture. I can relate to that. Thanks Mike.

Alicia

Karin Wells · 06-13-2002, 10:56 PM

I'd go for this one. Be sure to rotate the figure in order to square it up with the canvas....the most obvious way is to use the chair leg (see below).

You have a lot of distortion in your shots. It will probably be worth your while to take your camera to a good photography store and get some advice on how to eliminate or at least minimize this problem.

Marvin Mattleson's advice here is verrrrry important and bears repeating:

Quote:

When taking photos it is very important to photograph the background separately. In the event you want to shift the figure you have the information of what lies behind it.

Your background is so distorted that you need to eliminate it. You might go back and reshoot parts of her room or some of her toys separately if you wish to include them.

Karin Wells · 06-13-2002, 11:41 PM

This is definitely NOT a good composition.

Also note that your camera lens was too far above the child when you clicked the shutter...if you're going to photograph a short kid on the ground, you need to get down there with 'em so that you can shoot at just above their eye level.

Alicia Kornick · 06-14-2002, 12:46 AM

Well, it seems I can't get anything right. I can't shoot the pictures, I can't find a good composition and I can't paint the picture I want to. Karin, the distortion is coming I think from the computer. The shots do not look like that in "real time".
Alicia

Mike McCarty · 06-14-2002, 01:47 AM

Tis a vexing thing that we attempt. When I decided to paint portraits seriously I went through a very frustrating period and it had everything to do with source material. At some point it just snapped for me that if I was going to paint from photo's (and I was) then I had to creat better photo's. So I set out on a mission. I began to photograph anyone and everyone. I may have caused permenent damage to my daughter. I didn't paint much for a good while. I made friends with the guys at the camera shop and other people who new good photographs.

Even if you paint without photos, you must ultimately make the same decisions regarding composition. To me the camera is a wonderful teacher. Every photo you take is a lesson in composition. I say, every photo you take is a lesson in composition. And it's immediate and it's cheap. And for me it is all about composition. I would have my learned friends critique my efforts and slowly you begin to get to the nub of it. Every professional portrait photographer knows the subject of composition. They bring it to their logical conclusion. We want to take it to that most difficult conclusion... a painting. Being completely self taught, I didn't know how else to approach it. It just seemed to be a reduction of logic.

I have brought myself to the point where I can create pretty good reference photos. I now need to catch up on my ability to translate them into a painting. It seems that things must go there natural course, winter before spring then summer and blah, blah, blah.

Just one more thing. Coming from a business environment ie: computer analyst, commodity broker, business owner it has been a difficult transition for me in regards to criticism. Maybe the process of going to art school has as a by-product lessons in taking criticism. Coming from being the boss doesn't. You seem to be a very good sport having passed through this project in such a public manner.

This forum is a god send, especially for usuns who are not yet gifted.

Peggy Baumgaertner · 06-14-2002, 08:26 AM

Alicia,

I'm wanted in class, so I will have to make this succinct. Any one of those photographs would make a fine portrait. The color is good, the subject is photogenic, the light to shadow ratio is perfect, the distortion is manageable. When I saw the first photo you posted, I immediately contacted a few of my friends and told them I was dying to paint that photo. The key to the great portrait is not the "perfect" photograph to copy, it is using the photographs as reference material. The better the reference material the easier it is to paint, but it does not necessarily make the painting a better painting.

You have great stuff to work with. We are all Monday morning quarterbacking. Some like one sort of composition, some like another, like ice cream flavors. Do not question your eye. Those photo are wonderful. Maybe the most sage advice I could give you at this point in time is pick your favorite and paint it! I haven't seen a stinker in the bunch, just some photos I like better than others.

Peggy

Karin Wells · 06-14-2002, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Well, it seems I can't get anything right. I can't shoot the pictures, I can't find a good composition and I can't paint the picture I want to.

I am so sorry I contributed to this...I promise that you will never recieve another word of criticism from me. And by all means, paint whatever "sings" to you. Painting is supposed to be fun and everyone should paint exactly what they wish to.