Cadmium free and loving it.

[Celeste McCall]

Dear Tim and Marvin,

I really appreciate all that both of you do on this forum. You make it interesting to us because you have a very definite opinion and that is refreshing and welcome. I also enjoy all of your paintings.

Color theory and individual palette styles are just that. No one is right and no one is wrong. Each has their own way and each will promote the one that they prefer.

People also have preferrences as to color. Some like not so much color and others love nothing but color. So you are both right.

We like and respect both of you very, very much. And we love hearing both of your opinions because they often conflict though usually very fun and entertaining for us, the audience. It's a vivid contrast of opinions. It would be rather dull if we did not have both of your input.

The fact that both of you are brave enough to speak up frankly makes it so delightful for the rest of us. And it helps in education. We will test all theories and then see what works best for us. But we for sure want to hear both sides so please, both of you, keep giving us your opinions about all things relating to painting.

Each of you will never know how much the rest of us really appreciate the sharing of knowledge that both of you give to this forum.

[Celeste McCall]

Dear Tim,

This forum wouldn't be half as much fun for me if you didn't confront or disagree with a lot that I have said.

I am learning from you by your confrontation. It makes me study more. I very much appreciate it when you don't agree with things that I might say. I love it, in fact.

Why would I say them on a forum if all I wanted was, "you're correct in that assumption, Celeste." That's no fun. It doesn't make me see another person's point of view. Your disagreements with me have been very educational. Thank you for each one that you posted.

Both of you are very much fun for the rest of us in the forum. Like I said, you both will never realize how much we all appreciate both of your input.

[Renee Price]

Thank you Chris for stepping in. I agree with Celeste that ALL offensive posts should be deleted. Not just the ones in this thread. I disagree with Celeste in saying that she finds this 'debating' refreshing and delightful. I find it revolting and immature. Many people have stopped coming to this forum, much less posting on this forum because of the numerous refreshing delightful debates. This statement is supported even more after reading the emails I've received. Different views are fine and even passionate ideas can be discussed in a civil way. Everyone can learn from different views, but not when they're served with a side of sarcasm and insults.

Renee Price

[Lynn T. McCallum]

I am so pleased with my palette. It may only be oil that is mixed with ground up, dirt, rocks, and sometimes vegetable matter but it serves my purpose.

For years I searched for a palette that was kind to my sensitivities and sensibilities. I went to museums and read books.... but alas, to no avail. It took one demo with Marvin to convince me to place my cads in a drawer until needed for a flower or a fabric color. My search is over.

The search is never over for better compositions, subject matter, and draftsmanship, but for the time being it's nice not struggling like I did before with my flesh tones. There will be room to expand on my new palette later, but as it is, I haven't enjoyed painting like this in years.

Just had to pass that on and maybe get back on track to where this thread started.

Marvin's direction has helped me a lot. It may not be for others but the results I am creating now in my paintings are so very pleasing.

Lynn

[Celeste McCall]

Dear Renee,

Up to the point that the discussion turned offensive, then I have found them refreshing and delightful in previous threads that I have participated in or read.

After that happened then I stated that it was 'very offensive'. Personal attacks by anyone have no place in a professional atmosphere.

Some people do not like debating, but because I grew up with brothers who did it, I found that sometimes someone will come up with something unexpected and great for all that listened. Something that no one could have imagined or learned without the debate.

The most brilliant people that I have ever been around love to debate. But it's always been with a spirit of civility. I don't like to watch fights of any kind. Debating or other.

However, seeing two very talented artists that offer differing opinions allows the onlookers a great insight to their knowledge and techniques.

Marvin has been quite the gentleman in his replies. That demands so much more respect when one acts as he has.

But, I certainly know that you are right in saying that many people do not like any kind of debate at all.

I understand that and I'm very respectful of your opinion.

[Renee Price]

Celeste,

Thank you for clarifying your position about liking the banter before it turned nasty. I misinturpreted your replies and I apologize for that.

I love a good debate--a debate without passive aggressive comments and snottiness. Too many threads go into that realm of childishness and vindictiveness. I would love to see all debates maintain professionalism without attitude. There is a difference between questioning sources and knowledge, and personally assaulting someone. But until everyone can voice their opinion without concern of being crucified, we won't be able to have true debates.

Renee Price

[Celeste McCall]

Amen to that Renee.

Well, I have found the discussion between Tim and Marvin to be refreshing and insightful. It's not every day that we novices will get to hear the reasoned and passionate opinions of two such respected talents. Nor, I suspect, will we frequently get to hear their opinions on the criteria for commanding respect. What makes a good teacher? What makes a good artist? The only people I care to hear discuss it are good teachers, and good artists.

And just as I was about to suggest we rename this place the Snorum, too.

I'll take some growling and snorting by experts over the gratuitous gladhanding of mediocre works any day of the week. And "mediocre" was the nicest word I could think of.

Decorum is no excuse. Stiff upper lip everybody! Take sides in private.

[Chris Saper]

Decorum is no excuse. Stiff upper lip everybody! Take sides in private.

Au contraire. Member participation in this Forum is valued and appreciated, but only so far as members act respectfully towards other members, their work and their approach. Explaining bad behavior away as "passion" doesn't make it acceptable behavior.

Please keep in mind that the Forum exists primarily as an educational arena, and secondarily, to foster constructive philosophical debate about art and all of its attendant issues. There exist written etiquette guidlelines that are a condition of continued membership here, and to which we all agreed when we became members. Courtesy and respectful behavior in this Forum are not optional.

[Richard Budig]

Marvin:

Well said.