Cadmium free and loving it.

[Tom Edgerton]

Boys, BOYS!

We all see the value of an honest debate about materials and methods, even a spirited one, and welcome it. That often creates the opportunity to learn about another's approach. I think the objection here is when the discussion is a thinly veiled excuse for personal attack. None of us here is so dumb that we can't perceive the difference.

Speaking for myself, I find it extremely tiresome to wade through three pages of essentially "Nyah, nyah, nyah!" to reach a small kernel of usable information. So again, I think we all know the difference between a passionate discussion of technique and materials and saying, "If you use THIS color, I have serious problems with your mother." I find the former illuminating, the latter boring.

To Marvin's defense, I think he gets a bad rap in this forum for being merely opinionated. In his workshop, he wasn't oppressively militant about his palette vs. another, and didn't require that we use it. But he's very outspoken about how useful it's been for him, and why, and that it might be so for us. A position about which I find nothing offensive, as it springs from personal experience. In his posts here, he says nothing in regard to the character of those who use brilliant cads, or other palettes. He's also never asserted that his palette is a groundbreaking Mattelson innovation, merely his personal refinement of what's come before from Paxton and Reilly. I see no self-aggrandizement or ego there.

To me, the finest paintings have a tension or interplay between passages of brilliant color and more muted tones. From lesser hands, paintings veer wildly between either screaming, oversaturated hues or dishwater-dull tones. But in the hands of an artist, every modulation and nuance imaginable is skillfully played off the others. Sargent was a master of the brilliant color notes, but also the most sumptuous grays and off-whites you'll likely ever see. Knowledge of the actual components of his palette, though interesting and worthwhile, won't make us Sargent.

The palette either assists or it thwarts, but it has no implied value in and of itself. And the choice of its components says nothing about the artist one way or the other. What matters is the result.

Peace--TE

[Richard Budig]

Goodness. I certainly hope that I have not said anything that sounds like sniping. I find it fascinating to read about the colors other artists use.

After reading Marvin's list of colors, and his thoughts on red, I dug out some old tubds of Venetian and Indian Reds, and playe with them all one morning. I was fascinated by how closely I could approximate the very colors I get with my cad red light, which, because of its sharp nature, I find necessary to cut with something like raw umber, cobalt, viridian, etc. Made me think that I'll add some Venitian (it's warmer than Indian) to my palette since it automatically mixes NOT SO HOT as does cad red.

[Marvin Mattelson]

Richard,

I don't believe that Tom was referring to you. He was referring to people who, rather than joining into the discussion and sharing their own insights based on their experiences, as you have, try to attack the validity or the character of the person posting.

I would show you an example of this but to the best of my knowledge those offending posts have been removed. The fact that your posts remain intact speaks volumes.

Being that this is indeed a forum, debate and discussion of different points of view should be embraced and considered for their own merits. We can then accept, reject or question what we read and respond if we wiish.

We as artists are very passionate, by nature, about our beliefs and well we should be. However it is easy to get drawn into things too far, however, so we all need to count to ten, evaluate the content of what we say and review it's intended purpose in order to make sure we aren't debasing others.

I too have succumbed at times, usually in responding to an attack from another, but overall I have really tried to avoid being sucked into less than gentlemanly behavior.

Umfortunately some never seem to learn their lessons and so their words, like stones, have been cast aside.

[Chris Saper]

Admin note: The posts in this thread have veered far from the Cadmium-free palette. Please keep your posts on topic.

[Marvin Mattelson]

Chris,

I am putting forth great effort in the attempt at being well behaved. My second grade teacher warned my mother about this. Now you want me to stay on topic as well? My linear right brained orientation makes this a near impossibility, you know. But I wiil try.

Shouldn't their be some sort of exemption for the thread starter, however?

[Cynthia Daniel]

Everyone should take note of my new conduct warning post in the Posting Guidelines & Proper Conduct section.

http://forum.portraitartist.com/show...&threadid=3774

[Linda Nelson]

For those who have been following this interesting polemic, I happened to be one of the the first replies in this thread. I stated that I had been frustrated with the "lobster people" I would paint. I would feel there was this level of "acidity" sometimes.

Well I have some examples to show from the change already. Here is the painting I started a week or so ago after reading this thread and deciding to give the cad-free Paxton palette a shot. I have been impressed with the ability to get more subtlety, and therefore luminescence in my skin tones. For finishing touches, I did some tint layers with mixing transparent reds, yellows, and blues.

Sorry for the quality of the snapshots.

[Linda Nelson]

Here is a close up - It's at a severe angle when photographed, so the face looks distorted - i.e. the eyes slant. This was so to avoid the glare from the canvas (photographed hastily with bad light). I'll post the digital scan photo later under unveilings in a week or so.

I think using cads to acheive the same is "doable", but I think I "got there" faster with the Paxton palette (altered slightly - I didn't have Venitian red, and I added dioxazine violet and kings blue, and Old Holland turquoise).

[Linda Nelson]

Can you guess which it is?.....


At the time Marvin started this thread I was finishing this large painting - it is 7 1/2 feet tall and has 7 kids ( photos I took last summer). So to try out this paxton pallette, I stopped before finishing this painting, and started the painting of Olivia (shown in above post). Once almost completed with Olivia last week, I went back to this painting of 7 kids and finish it.

Just for yuks I painted one of the kids entire face and body in the paxton pallette. The rest were all done with my pre-paxton pallette - which I think was - naples yellow, cad yellow, cad orange, cad red, scarlet red, al crimson, yellow ochre, pale green, sap green, terre verte, ultra. blue, kings blue, turquoise, diox. purp. and black.

I just quickly took this photo at night tonight in incandescent light - sorry for the bad image. I'll post one with close ups tomorrow with better lighting.

I think, like I said in the painting of Olivia, that I completed the face faster with the paxton pallette than what it took me in time for any of the other 6 faces ( in general). I still used cads, but as a tweak here and there, not as part of the main "attack"

I thought I'd post this as I think it's rather fun to think that one face is painted with a completely different pallette.

[Linda Nelson]

the main reason this original post from Marvin interested me is because I was about to embark on my first Corporate Commission, and was having anxieties over having the skins tones having a more "professional" quality. I like the color of the cads, but that's not what I envisioned for this painting.

So I was really interested in trying out this paxton pallette, but not with the corporate commission at first. That's why I did the Olivia commission with the paxton pallette (shown above). Having good success, I finished that large family painting, then started the Corporate Commission with the paxton pallette.

This is after 3 days work, and I am enjoying the "flow" so far. I will probably expand what I paint with as the painting gets completed, but paxton pallette (adding a few colors as noted above) has felt comfortable so far.