Palette drying too fast

[Joan Breckwoldt]

Originally Posted by Marvin Mattelson

I assume this is a compliment? If so, thanks!

If painting into wet soup doesn't suit you try layers.

The thing to keep in mind that one can paint in layers and each layer can be painted wet into wet. I start each new layer with scumbling and paint into the scumble with wet paint. I am repainting the head but I allow what's under to come through and then I refine it, in much the same way a sculptor keeps refining smoothness with finer cuts.

Thank you Marvin for replying. Yes, that was meant to be a compliment. You think art on a higher plane so I need to read your words very carefully to grasp the full meaning.

I tried layers but I tried it in the manner of underpainting. I thought there were two ways to paint, underpainting or alla prima. Underpainting didn't seem spontaneous enough for me at the time and the looseness of alla prima appealed to me. So, I tried wet into wet. Now I'm learning there seems to be a combination of the two!

When you say you paint into the scumble with wet paint, I'm assuming the scumble is over paint that has dried. In essence, you are creating a wet environment by putting on the scumble first? I think I get it.

I guess painting with 'layers' is different from the underpainting method because with underpainting the original underpainting done in raw umber and white (or whatever combination people use) shows through the glazes. But, with 'layers', the original painting, or first layer is completely obscured by additional layers? Have I got this right?

Thanks again, I would be learning portrait painting in a vacuum without the generous posts on this forum!

Joan

[Marvin Mattelson]

Linda, you're too kind, but flattery will get you anywhere.

Joan, You're getting a better idea but I think you're still stuck trying to differentiate between two seemingly opposite approaches.

I do put a scumble down as a base to paint wet into, but not all the time. Sometimes I paint over dry and sometimes over an oiled out section. Sometimes I let my underpainting show through. Sometimes intermediate layers show. Although my approach may be mistakenly viewed by many as being too methodical. In truth, it really allows me to be quite spontaneous. I do what works and at times I discover new techniques after my brush a has shown me the way. I discover new things about painting all the time. Ultimately discipline provides the greatest freedom.

[Joan Breckwoldt]

Originally Posted by Marvin Mattelson

Joan, You're getting a better idea but I think you're still stuck trying to differentiate between two seemingly opposite approaches.

Thank you for your post Marvin. Are you saying they're not opposite approaches? Should I forget about trying to make them different and just meet in the middle, which seems to be where this is leading?

Originally Posted by Marvin Mattelson

Although my approach may be mistakenly viewed by many as being too methodical. . . . . Ultimately discipline provides the greatest freedom.

Methodical is good. I have an engineering degree and the main reason I got into engineering was because it was methodical. Methodical works for me. Perhaps that is why I'm trying so hard to name everything and find a place in my process for everything.

I think the best thing for me to do now is to just do it. I need to paint a portrait and use the 'layering' technique.

But, am I not back to the 'underpainting' method? I am comfortable painting a monochromatic portrait. With this step I can get my values correct. If the world were in black and white I'd be great. Too bad I can't be done with that first step! Then the next step is adjusting color. I realize most artists combine these two steps but I'm not proficient enough to place down value and color correctly at the same time. After my layer of color I can proceed to adjust the color with layers of scumbling. (Maybe glazing, whatever is necessary.) I feel comfortable I could do this. But, isn't this the 'underpainting' method?

I suppose it doesn't matter what the method is called, as long as it works.

Thank you everyone for sharing your wisdom on this subject!

Joan

[Joan Breckwoldt]

One more thought. I guess I understood that with the underpainting method one paints the underpainting and then adds glazes. No scumbles, just glazes. The glazes made the painting darker. So that means the final painting would never be lighter anywhere than the original underpainting. The underpainting had to be lighter everywhere than the final painting would end up being.

That's probably not right though, is it? Why have a technique that is so limiting. No wonder that method didn't work for me when I tried it.

Hmmph.

Joan

[Marvin Mattelson]

There are many types of under-painting. I have a demo on my site from a workshop in Atlanta last year at http://www.fineartportrait.com/workshop_demo.html Maybe this will strike a chord?

I assume you went to school for a number of years to become an engineer. Is art any less legitimate than engineering? I would suggest you consider taking a workshop that would clarify a sound working procedure. I could probably recommend someone if you're interested ;-)

[Joan Breckwoldt]

Hi Marvin,

Thank you for your reply. I have studied that demo a number of times. I know it would be so much better in person. The subtle changes from one picture to the next are almost to subtle for me to see.

Yes, it did take me a long time to get that engineering degree . . . for all the good it's doing me now. But that's a different story.

Believe me, I'm trying to get to your workshop and I've e-mailed with Haleh regarding this. (Oh, did you mean your workshop when you said you could recommend somebody? You're too subtle! ) My biggest obstacle is that I have 2 kids at home during the summer so it's hard for me to be away for a week. During the school year when they're in school all day would be easier for me to disappear for a week, but alas, I don't believe you offer any workshops during the school year. I'm probably not the only potential student faced with that problem but since you teach regular classes during the school year it's probably impossible for you to offer a week long workshop during the same time. But I'll continue to work on it.
.
Thanks again,

Joan

[Joan Breckwoldt]

Marvin,

Are the week long classes you offer at the School of Visual Arts the same format and content as the off-site workshops? I'm asking because I've read so many positive comments on the forum about the off-site workshops.

Thanks,

Joan