Paxton vs. cads and shadow help please!

[Joan Breckwoldt]

Hi Linda,

Thank you for your reply. I have lost some of the head's 3-D quality since I've painted over this so much, which is a shame. I can see that I've lost some of the shape since I've been focusing on the color. I can get that back though.

Are you saying that if the lit side is very cool, then the shadow side can be cool too? But if it's not AS cool, it will look warm? I've read so much about cool and warm on this forum, I thought that was a 'rule'. Though I can hear Marvin saying that once you learn the rules, then you can break them (Marvin, hope I got that right).

Joan

[Joan Breckwoldt]

P.S. Linda, are you saying my lights don't look cool enough? I thought they were pretty cool, but I will take your advice and make a chart with different colors. I didn't know if you were talking in general terms or specifically about the face I painted when you said I could "go cooler in the lights".

Thanks again,

Joan

[Joan Breckwoldt]

I thought I would post a charcoal drawing I did from life to illustrate that I can see the darks, it's just the dark colors that I'm having a hard time with. I had an instructor once tell me that if the world were in black and white I would be great. But, thankfully, the world isn't black and white, so I need to learn this. If I were to paint this guy, he would most likely look A LOT flatter than he does now.

I usually do my underpainting to get the values correct, but then when I start to go over it with paint, the shadows get lighter and lighter because I don't like the dark colors I come up with.

I hope this helps to illustrate my problem.

Joan

[Janel Maples]

All I can say is attend a Marvin Mattelson workshop. With the information he gives about how to use his palette, your questions about "what color is that and how do I get it?" will be answered and you will understand why and how you got it.

Words can not express how happy I am that I studied with him.

Good luck.

Janel

[Joan Breckwoldt]

Hi Janel,

Unfortunately that's easier said than done. I live in Houston and have two young children at home so it's hard for me to leave for a week! I did try to get to his July 26th workshop in NYC but the dormitory was full which meant I would have been taking the subway to and from the class to a hotel somewhere (and the school had NO recommendations at all about where to stay), the plane ticket was expensive and my dad ended up in the hospital that week so I really needed to be here. Had I been there I would have had to leave in the middle of the workshop.

I have heard so many great things about Marvin's workshop, that's why I tried to make arrangements to go. There is still hope for next summer though. It would just be easier to get away when the kids are in school during the school year, but he doesn't teach his week long workshops during the school year, he's busy teaching his regular classes.

I certainly don't mean to whine but I need to get this figured out, even if I am able to get to one of his classes in the summer of 2005 that's still a year away.

Thanks,

Joan

[Renee Price]

I have studied with Marvin and, with my partner Denise Hall, organized Marvin

[Joan Breckwoldt]

Renee,

Thank you so much, I am beginning to understand more. This whole thing about mixing different values of EACH color is new to me. I have studied a lot of posts by Marvin about Paxton's palette and even ordered all the colors mailorder from the Italian Art Supply place that he recommended. So, I have all the colors.

I recently viewed Daniel Greene's video and he does something that sounds similar, mixing a number of values in each color. As I said, this is new to me. I understood that Marvin mixed his neutrals in all the values.

Originally Posted by Renee Price

. . . a row of neutrals in values 9-1

I will have to find the post that tells me exactly what the neutral is. I remember there was yellow ochre in it ( a yellow) to neutralize the blue in the black. Can't remember exactly . . .

Originally Posted by Renee Price

When mixing colors, remember to work up and down within the values and never across. For example, never mix a value 6 yellow ochre with a value 5 cool red and always use a different brush for each value. Mixing across the values or using the same brush for the different values can result in mud.

Renee, are you saying that when you decide to paint, say, a cheek in a value 3, then you go to your premixed colors as you described them and mix together some of this color in value 3, then a little of that color in value 3, until you get the right color? I understand not mixing in a little of a value 2, for example, with this "3" mixture. Am I getting this right? Doesn't that mean you have to have a pretty huge palette surface? Daniel Greene's is huge, he had is specially made.

Originally Posted by Renee Price

Shadows on the flesh are not just brown or grey. They vary in value and color based on planes of the face, local color and value, temp of light, and surrounding clothing. Don't limit yourself to one value and one color.

Thank you for this thought, it's good for me to remember that a shadow isn't just one color. Although . . . the down side here is that I can hardly figure out ONE good color to make a shadow and now you're telling me to find lots of good shadow colors.

Seriously though, I'll try and be more open minded when it comes to "seeing" the colors in the shadows.

Thank you very much,

Joan