College classes nowadays

Kimberly Dow · 11-02-2004, 01:35 AM

I am posting this as a complaint more than anything...

There is a state university 30 miles from my new home. It is known to be the farmer's college because it is mainly an agricultural college. They have rodeos as part of the curriculum. My husband is actually overseeing the building of the animal range science project - which includes a 30 million dollar treadmill for horses. It does however have fine arts as well. You can actually go there and get a 4-year BFA.

I recently met the main drawing/painting professor. I had seen some of her paitnings online and they were nice. I had seen others in person that were not very representational... Anyway - she has had her life drawing class going for short poses since August and has just moved them up to 20 minute drawings and is just now introducing color by way of colored pastel. She told me I could come by at any time to sit in and draw if I'd like. I popped in tonight and boy was I shocked. These were all seniors and fine art majors. Not ONE out of 12 could draw a single part of the anatomy that was anywhere near what it really looked like. It was so disappointing.

I stayed for 2 20-minute poses. It was so depressing to know these kids were going to graduate this spring. What kind of work can they actually get?

Anway - it's been awhile since I drew with pastel - had to dig out an old student box that had very few colors in it and none of them real skin tones.....as much as my short little drawing stinks - it was refreshing in a way. I am inspired to hire my models for some life sessions - for more than 20 minutes though! I'm telling you - the pressure I felt knowing it was only 20 minutes! My heart was beating fast...I had forgotten how that felt - to have to rush like that. I think this fella had a nose before I took the drawing home...

Patricia Joyce · 11-02-2004, 11:05 AM

I can relate!! I have been taking classes through two colleges, the Cleve Institute and a local community college for over two years. Your experience is not unusual at all. I often ask myself if my time and money would be better spent hiring my own model. Generally my biggest complaint is the lighting - flourescent overhead classroom lighting, NO spotlights. So after this quarter is over I am going to hire by niece and her freshman girlfriends for portrait posing.

Sorry your experience was so disappoiting, but I do like your sketch!!

Marvin Mattelson · 11-02-2004, 12:06 PM

I'm sorry to hear of your disappointing experience at college. Unfortunately there is a strong tradition of non teaching that relates back to the mentality that teaching technique stifles creativity. This has been embedded in the minds of so many generations of artists that is just continues to proliferate in colleges and art schools everywhere.

I have students coming to my class, like desert nomads finally stumbling onto an oasis, who are so happy to finally learn that there is indeed a methodology. Far too many teachers think that just propping a student in front of a canvas with a brush in hand will allow one to become a painter.

It's really sad that so many potentially great artists are turned off and thwarted never to manifest their talents simply because they were never shown a logical, basic and fundimental way to approach painting. It doesn't have to be this way.

Jimmie Arroyo · 11-02-2004, 05:30 PM

Sorry to hear it Kim. My painting teacher in college was HORRIBLE. His name was Marvin Mattle........ ha,ha just kidding. Different school entirely. My loss.

Our first thing was to copy a Master's painting and I stupidly chose Ingres's Princesse de Broglie. I did it in acrylic, but had not painted before with a brush, just an airbrush. I thought it looked ok for my first try. He pretty much told me to do it over after giving no help whatsoever. He tore apart everyone's work, even the good ones.

During the teacher's show in the gallery, his piece was a like a square ying-yang. The kids that took his class were pretty upset that this was the person "teaching" us. That must be why I can't paint today.

Quote:

Far too many teachers think that just propping a student in front of a canvas with a brush in hand will allow one to become a painter.

I decided to drop my painting class for this reason. I wasn't learning anything in there. The teacher thought I could do no wrong, and any advice he tried giving would not benefit me at all. Sigh. Hope you find something else, Kim.

Kimberly Dow · 11-02-2004, 07:09 PM

Jimmie - You mean you dropped the class you are taking now? Didn't you feel that getting in front of a live model was time well spent - even if the instructor was no good? You better not stop the painting - your going to be extrememly good - you are so skilled & determined.

This class I attended was just as just a visitor - not for instruction. It was a way to get in front of a live person for awhile (for free). I knew when I saw this instructors work in person that she didnt have anything to offer me. She did try awfully hard to impress upon me that she was a professional artist with loads and loads of shows, not just a teacher....I don't know what that was all about, but it was uncomfortable. I did try to have a conversation with her, but she didn't let me get a word in. At least she didn't try to instruct me while I was sketching.

Julie Gerleman · 01-13-2005, 08:38 PM

I'm currently back at university to finish my fine arts degree. I dropped my program the first time because I had a chance to study with a 'neo-classical' painter outside of the university and I had become disillusioned with university classes. I mean, gee, I sort of wanted an education to go along with that degree! By leaving school and becoming and apprentice, I got it.

But what I found is a lack of degree of any sort narrows professional opportunities (BFA's are highly regarded in the graphic design sector, where I work), so here I am again, back finishing up my last 5 classes to finish up (albeit at a different, and as far as I can tell, even worse school which would have been hard for me to imagine). How I'll make it through this next year without busting blood vessels in my temples is anyone's guess. Lucky for me it's an open syllabus with students having entirely free reign over assignments and subject matter.

But you should have seen the look of perplexity on my instructor's face when I informed him that the rows and columns of little squares on my raw-umber washed canvas was a neatly organized study of skin tones I was planning on using as reference material for my paintings of figures and portraits I would be doing in his class. He thought it was a 'really neat' painting and I might consider using it as one of my actual paintings for the class. Good grief. He also seemed to have a hard time understanding that I intended - intended the palette to actually follow what skin tones you might see in real life. That I didn't necessarily want my palette to 'push the edge' or whatever.

To be fair, his landscape paintings are gorgeous and I could actually learn a lot from him about color - if I actively tap him for info. He might have just been shocked that one of his students values technique and study and realism. I don't know. But -- is it normal for a university painting instructor to not know who Nelson Shanks is? Or Daniel E. Greene? Or is it me; do I simply live on another planet?

Wow, I just ranted a blue streak there. Sorry 'bout that. Just frustrated and I feel sorry for the kids in my class who obviously haven't been given a good art education because their teachers didn't want to 'stifle their creativity'. Grr. Me, I got lucky. I never realized that till now, never was properly thankful for it, either. In my case it was my high school art teacher who was a stickler for technique and he taught us tons.

Oh, and Cynthia, I'm really, really happy this forum exists. I learn something here every time I visit. In fact, I think I just figured out how I'm going to avoid busted blood vessels for the remainder of the time I'm at school - check in here often.

Thanks, and thanks again.

Chris Saper · 01-13-2005, 09:02 PM

Dear Julie and Kim,

Unfortunately, I will tell you that university fine arts courses are EXACTLY as they were 30 years ago. Representational fine arts education is what you get outside the university setting.

That being said. no one has ever been ill-served by a four year degree. It's just not relevant to what we do here as painters. However, it is most certainly relevant to any number of publishers, editors, and some educational organizations (if you are thinking that teaching is part of what you will do).

Is it too late to pick up a minor in a useful, if unrelated, field?

Chris Saper · 01-13-2005, 09:09 PM

Hi everyone, I moved this thread over to the Cafe as it seems more philosophical in its progress.

Julie Gerleman · 01-13-2005, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Saper

Is it too late to pick up a minor in a useful, if unrelated, field?

I think it's too late for me - I've only got a few more classes to get my paper. I think, if I had to do this all over again, at the very least, I'd do a lot more research. All art programs are not created equal and all that. But what I'd probably end up doing is get a degree in business/marketing/graphic arts (major/minor combination of some sort), taking as many elective fine arts classes as I could fit into my schedule. Then later, I'd take time off now and then and travel to take workshops through ateliers or artists I admire. Marketing and business - essential, I'm finding. Everyone here seems to be rather good at it and I don't think that's coincidental.

But it's interesting to know that things haven't changed in the last 30 years. Unfortunate, too. For now I'm just going to have to resign myself not to expect too much; I'll get a degree out of this regardless. But I already know a real art education is going to take the rest of my life.

Anyone out there had a good experience with university art classes? Any programs you'd recommend? If so, which universities, which instructors? Perhaps that info might be useful to people who are interested in pursuing BFAs and happen across this post.

Chris Saper · 01-13-2005, 09:39 PM

As I think about this question, I certainly don't know of anything current. Nonetheless, perhaps it makes sense to have double major - fine arts, and something "practical". Although a university student is unlikely to get the fine art experience most of us have in mind, it still provides many hundreds of hours of life drawing experience. That is never wasted. Plus, it keeps one happy.