Soft light or strong light for model?

[Steven Sweeney]

Originally Posted by Joan Breckwoldt

Are these shadows too subtle to paint from?

On my employer's time, I'll respond only to this question, regarding your second example.

I think the value design is very good here, very workable. I'm not sure if by "subtle," you mean that the shadow isn't very dark and sharply delineated. Usually only an intense, close, single light source (or direct sunlight) will give you that, and unless you're doing cast drawings in a studio, there's no good reason that I know of to go for that effect, especially on a young, soft-complexioned female. That is, maybe it would go over on a grizzled cowhand, corral-side under a midday sun, but not here.

Of your four examples, this is the one that I would be most inclined to pursue. On my monitor, the first and fourth are impossibly dark -- squint at them and the figures disappear completely.

[Joan Breckwoldt]

Hi Julie,

Thank you for your reply. I think it does but I never learned how to do that! I'll investigate.

Hi Steven,

Originally Posted by Steven Sweeney

I'm not sure if by "subtle," you mean that the shadow isn't very dark and sharply delineated.

That's exactly what I mean. I mean the transitions between shadow and light are not well defined. I don't necessarily mean shadows that are not dark, but I think with the more diffused light I am by definition not going to get dark shadows. At least that's what it seems like to me.

Thank you Steven for replying, especially on your employer's time.

Joan

[Michele Rushworth]

Joan, I think the example of your daughter is lighted just about perfectly. You would rarely want any greater degree of contrast between lit and unlit areas, anyway. Much more contrast than this and your camera couldn't handle it anyway. You'd end up with blasted out white light areas and deep impenetrable darks. Not good to paint from.

The shots that turn out red are probably, as was suggested, problems with your white balance setting on your camera. It is probably set by default to match the window light that you had on your daughter and your Mom's friend, since the color on those is great.

When we shoot by artificial light we run into lots of different colors of lighting. The reddest ones look like they are lit by incandescent light(regular houshold bulbs) but that your camera's white balance is still set for natural daylight. Check out that feature and be sure it's set to match whatever the main light source is.

[Cindy Procious]

Definitely read your camera's manual on how to adjust white balance. It makes such a difference.

I like the photo of your son, too. You can color correct photos in Photoshop, and lighten the darks to get more information.

[Joan Breckwoldt]

Dear Michele, Cindy, Steven, and Julie,

Thank you all for taking the time to post such insightful and thoughtful answers, I really appreciate it. Thanks to you all I think I will be able to take much better photos as soon as I get the white balance figured out. With the Thanksgiving holidays starting tomorrow I'll have two almost willing subjects to take lots of photos of over the break. First, of course, I need to get out my manual and read up on white balance.

I am still very much interested in hearing more opinions on just how delineated/sharp the line should be where the shadow meets the light. I suppose it also depends on the mood I want to convey. And like so much, there is probably no magic answer.

thanks,

Joan

[Steven Sweeney]

Originally Posted by Joan Breckwoldt

I am still very much interested in hearing more opinions on just how delineated/sharp the line should be where the shadow meets the light.

There's no "should" involved, any more than you'd ask, what "should" I include for props, or how "should" I pose my subject. You make those choices so that the result will be in service to the overall effect that you're trying to achieve.

Middle value transitions between shadow and light value shapes are wonderful areas where amazing things happen, for it is in those locations that color is often most richly revealed and used to its best purpose, since it is neither washed out by the brighter lights nor dulled by shadow. Cultivate that opportunity and exploit it, rather than looking for ways to minimize such transition areas.

Yes, mood is a consideration, as is the physical quality of the subject. That craggy cowhand's face can easily manage a sharp-edged shadow cast by a hat brim, and we will see every wrinkle and fold and whisker. Bringing that kind of focus to bear on that sort of detail in, say, a young woman's face will only seem harsh and unflattering in most cases. On the other hand, if your intent is to convey a sense of brilliant strong lighting, the sharper definitions are probably in order. (I'll try to find some examples to add later, as I have some in mind.)

Remember that a hard edge, a sharply defined boundary of a value area, attracts the viewer's attention to that area (or in certain applications, creates depth, which itself is an attention gathering device). You are in control of whether or not that happens.

[Joan Breckwoldt]

Originally Posted by Steven Sweeney

Middle value transitions between shadow and light value shapes are wonderful areas where amazing things happen, for it is in those locations that color is often most richly revealed and used to its best purpose, since it is neither washed out by the brighter lights nor dulled by shadow. Cultivate that opportunity and exploit it, rather than looking for ways to minimize such transition areas.

Thank you Steven, you have opened up my eyes to looking at transition areas in a whole new way. I tend to try and minimize the transitions because I don't feel confident painting those areas! But, just reading your post has made me want to master the transition areas. Very valuable insight for me, thank you.

Joan

[Michele Rushworth]

I am still very much interested in hearing more opinions on just how delineated/sharp the line should be where the shadow meets the light. I suppose it also depends on the mood I want to convey. And like so much, there is probably no magic answer.

Exactly. It depends on the subject and the mood you want. Look at paintings you like and see how they did it.

Remember, though, that when you set up a model in the light you think would be just right, it will usually turn out to be too contrasty in the photograph. That's what cameras do, whether film or digital. They increase contrast, sometimes by a huge amount.

A simple tip when shooting by window light (which is the easiest way to start in any case): In order to increase contrast between the lit and unlit sides of the face just move the subject closer to the window, to decrease contrast move him or her away from the window.

[Joan Breckwoldt]

Originally Posted by Michele Rushworth

Exactly. It depends on the subject and the mood you want. Look at paintings you like and see how they did it.

Michele,

Great suggestion! For some reason I tend to think I must have a sharp delineation between shadow and light. I'll look at books and see someone like Renoir who has painted the dark side of a face a medium tone, at best, and I'll wonder 'why does that work'? It has been drilled into my head by previous instructors to paint shadows dark, dark, and darker.

I understand there must be some dark somewhere in the painting, otherwise the painting will look washed out. But still, there are some paintings where the darks just aren't that dark and I think they work. Though again, that may be to portray a soft mood.

thank you,

Joan

[Alexandra Tyng]

You are right, Joan, there is no correct answer. If the light moves you, go with it. Just be constantly on the lookout for a beautifully lit subject and then, if you can't take a photo right at that moment, try to replicate the light for your painting.

Personally I like the light in the two reference photos of your daughter and your mother's friend the best. The light/shadow relationship is definitely not too subtle and, in fact, is excellent for a portrait. If you're going to be painting from life in a studio with the dark green-gray walls, make sure there is a good, clear, even light coming from the window and move the person near the light source. If you take a photo, you can manually set the light meter for the light side of the face, or use spot metering taken from the light side. Were you using artificial light for both of the dark photos? That might not work very well, but I couldn't say for sure, since I've never tried it. (My studio walls are off-white.)

Alex