Composition - examples of note

[Carlos Ygoa]

Mike,
The austerity of the background in the Murillo piece (more like "vacuum") serves to rivet the attention on the two women; the whole composition would have been weaker (I think) if the artist had included secondary elements in the background. Which does not mean in any way that background or negative space is the third element--I am of the opinion that an element in a painting has to be a "positive", actual element.
Degas introduced a third element in his painting below, the table in the foreground, but the painting remains a 2-figure composition. His background is also austere and we are focused on the 2 women. It is quite easy to include a 3rd element (not 3rd "figure") to make the painting coalesce, the challenge is when we limit ourselves to the austerity of 2 figures and still pull off something powerful.


Not sure if I got my point across...

[Carlos Ygoa]

Could have sworn I attached the image in my previous post. Here it is again, I hope.

[Mike McCarty]

Which does not mean in any way that background or negative space is the third element--I am of the opinion that an element in a painting has to be a "positive", actual element.

Carlos,

I'm not sure I understand your meaning completely. Maybe it's just a matter of semantics. If we are studying the relationship of shapes and masses isn't one shape just as good as another? Are you distinguishing the term element from shape or mass? If you believe, as you stated, that your first example would be much weaker without the vacuum/shape to the right, then can't we accept it as a compositional element?

I agree that when the "elements" are reduced to the absolute minimum this is when we are put to the test.

Similar to your example Carlos, a more contemporary painting by Carol Katchen.

[Mike McCarty]

Hey Mike, I'm still LEARNING "The Rules" Gotta know them before you can break them ....successfully.

Carol,

I think this is very true of any field. I suppose that if you stay within the genre of representational art, whatever that means to you, that there are some rules that could be applied consistently.

Our friend Chris Saper is always rightly pointing out those nasty tangents that appear within our compositions, likewise there are certain conventions which apply to the edge of the canvas.

There is, however, a whole world of atypical representations out there. If I were to be generous I would say that those operating successfully in those genres would have first had a handle on some set of conventional rules.

And speaking of two bunny compositions, Easter will be here before you know it.

[Mike McCarty]

Carlos,

P.S. I just got a post card from my daughter from the coast of Spain. Hotel Aigua Blava, Platja de Fomells, Bergur-Girona-Spain. However that gets sorted out.

Oh these daughters, I'm reminded that you too have a daughter ...

[Carlos Ygoa]

Originally Posted by Mike McCarty

If you believe, as you stated, that your first example would be much weaker without the vacuum/shape to the right, then can't we accept it as a compositional element?

Okay.
My problem is that I never compose with a conscious thought on the negative space my painting will have. I never have a conscious intention or effort to make it have an effect on the whole. For me it is just something that happens as a result, an effect of some sort. So I never consider it to be a compositional element. I suppose if one DOES consider it beforehand (what role the neg. space will play), and takes it so into consideration, then it could be taken as a compositonal elelment. I don

[Mike McCarty]

Thanks for that Carlos. I think I understand your meaning. My daughter is back now and went on and on about Barcelona. She also got to visit some little towns where Dega spent his time. I haven't had enough time to talk to her about it. My daughter is majoring in museum management and curation at her University.

***

Here is a two person composition by Wm. Bouguereau. I wonder if the presence of the break through the trees on our right side of the picture had anything to do with him trying to add a third element. It's amazingly close in size and roundness to the shape of the girls heads, and almost at the same height.

Also, here is a Raymond Kinstler composition. I wonder who's set of compositional rules he was reading from. I think the thing is, even when things seem to be scattered and haphazardly placed, they can still follow a set of conventions. This seems to be the case with good abstract art when only shapes and color have to carry the day. I would say that the signature here plays an important role in balancing this composition.

[SB Wang]

A valuable issue, Mike and all, about which I also wrote an article years ago, edited by Cynthia Daniel, submitted to American Artist magazine. Douglas? ' book mentioned this point.

[Mike McCarty]

Hello Schubert, hope things are going well for you.

One of SB's beautiful portraits.