Chinese copyists

[David Draime]

Originally Posted by Marvin Mattelson

David, what percentage of those buying portraits are members of what you call the broader public? Do you really think these practices will affect the bulk of American portrait artists that don't cater to more elite cliental?

I was just making the point - as you did - that our targeted market is a small fraction of the overall population. They may not all be rich, but they are relatively few. The average American is not going to spend $3000 + for a portrait of their spouse or child (how I wish this was not the case!). Commissioning an original oil portrait is not even on most people's radar. And the potential clients that we do have, even those that are on a budget, are unlikely to send a photo reference to a factory in Dafen to have an anonomous painter render their Brittany (in a day!) and have it shipped backed to them framed and ready to hang. Even those (hopefully few) clients who wouldn't know the difference - I don't think they would go to the trouble and uncertainty. So, though I find the whole phenomenon rather distasteful, I don't feel threatened by it.

I will start worrying when I see a Chinese copyist factory opened in Nashville with ten thousand employees.

HOWEVER, since I am rather new to this whole portrait world, I would readily and happily defer to your considerable experience and judgement on such matters. Just thinking out loud.....

Originally Posted by Marvin Mattelson

Regarding your question, I'm mostly amused. Who wouldn't be flattered to be termed a MASTER? (Whether it's a legitimate title or not!) But I could do without the OLD attached.

How about MIDDLE-AGED MASTER?

David

[Michele Rushworth]

I will start worrying when I see a Chinese copyist factory opened in Nashville with ten thousand employees.

Now there's a striking image! I can imagine how the Detroit auto manufactuers must have felt when Toyota started opening up factories across the South.

This is from the International Herald Tribune (part of the New York Times):

"In Alabama alone, Mercedes-Benz has doubled the size of its plant near Tuscaloosa in the past year; Honda has done the same at its factory in Lincoln; Hyundai, the South Korean automaker, opened a factory last month in Montgomery, Alabama; and Toyota is adding 300 workers at its engine plant in Huntsville. The automobile industry in the United States is not dying - it is just changing hands."

Globalization affects all businesses eventually, I suppose.

[Marvin Mattelson]

Detroit began losing it's foothold because it didn't give people what they wanted, high quality cars that fell within their specific budget. It's still going on.

Hopefully we will not be myopic like Detroit. I'd like to see those Chinese factory workers live in this country making 50 cents to a dollar per painting.

I'd worry about US based portrait artists or agents having the paintings produced in China and claiming otherwise.

[Heidi Maiers]

Interesting topic. I've been aware of the knock off industry for a while in country's like China and Thailand - but about the low quality, mass produced bronze knockoffs produced in their foundries. Makes sense that the same would apply for mass infringement on painting copyrights as well. Here's a site where some artists are fighting back and actually shutting down some of these foundries.

http://www.bronzecopyright.com/index.php?lang=eng

As a side note, I was alerted earlier this year when someone saw several of my one of a kind originals being sold on ebay from someone in China. The person actually lifted photos of my work from my website and had them for sale on ebay for thousands. Although this was not a case of copyright infringement - just outright fraud. I alerted ebay and they had the person's account shut down immediately.

[SB Wang]

David, I'd like to read more from you about China,
This one is new:
http://www.cceia.org/resources/transcripts/0035.html

[David Draime]

Originally Posted by SB Wang

David, I'd like to read more from you about China,
This one is new:
http://www.cceia.org/resources/transcripts/0035.html

SB, Interesting link, thanks for that!

I was in China from 1993 - '97, so I'm sure some things have changed or evolved, while clearly some things have not. The entire time I was there, the number one complaint - by far - that the Chinese had about their society was not lack of democratic freedom, or the one-child policy or even the human rights situation. It was corruption. The frustration with official corruptiuon was (and I'm sure still is), intense and universal. It affects everyone. I suppose the only ones who don't complain are those in a small minority who are well-connected. The word for it is "guangxi" (gwon-shee) - meaning connections or favors. You need it for everything: from fixing a vcr to getting a life-saving operation. And it often takes the form of outright bribery. A colleague of mine had to give an expensive TV to a doctor before he would operate on his wife. These kind of stories are ubiquitous. I experienced it a little, but was mostly protected by my being a "laowai" (foreigner). But hearing these stories over and over by colleagues, dear friends, strangers - it all made my blood boil,.the injustice of it all. And I believe that this system of guangxi pre-dates the communist revolution. It's endemic to Chinese culture - it's just that now all the real power resides in this one political party - so that's where a lot of your connections need to be made if you want to accomplish anything.

In all the time I was there I met only two true believers in communism, really die-hard, committed communists. They were both Italian, forty- something expats (and they were both named Claudio.... ) I never met one Chinese who really believed. Those who wanted or planned to be party members - it was all about getting-well connected, to have a better life. And it could make all the difference in a person's advancement....

China is such a complex and deep society, that I came away knowing that I could live there all my life and never really truly understand it. But the Chinese people are extraordinary and I think they are poised to contribute so much to our emerging global civilization. It is, as has been noted elsewhere, the "country of the future." And the future is soon.

SB, where are you from originally?

[Enzie Shahmiri]

Michelle, thanks for your response to my question. This is indeed a very interesting thread.