Lamp black not drying

Richard Bingham · 09-17-2010, 07:11 PM

Thank you for that, my friend!

Richard Budig · 09-26-2011, 07:52 PM

I realize this thread has been inactive for awhile, but I just want to say that I have used Liquin for the last 30 years, and I have never experienced the problems mentioned in this thread. I have never sanded between painting sessions. I read so many things like this about Liquin, but I know quite a few artists like me who have used Liquin for years without ill effects.

Richard Bingham · 09-27-2011, 12:34 PM

Richard, I do hope you never experience a delamination failure in your paintings, 30 years past, or 30 years into the future. Good on ya!

Here's the deal. There is no escaping the physical nature of certain materials. When dry, the surface of alkyd resin paint films is impervious to the chemical action and solvent transfer which allows traditional vehicles to bond. If an alkyd film is not abraded to provide a mechanical key for subsequent applications, it is not a question of whether delamination will occur, but how and when.

Having used alkyd paints for over 40 years in the production of commercial displays, I can tell you that this is not only a feature which is addressed by the manufacturers of commercial coatings, but is most definitely a factor in over-layering applications of alkyd paint.

To reiterate the history of alkyds, originally "al-cid", alkyd resin is a synthetic resin produced from the combination of alcohol and an acid. It was developed in the early 1930s out of the necessity of producing paint coatings which would be more durable in automotive applications than the traditional natural vehicle paints then in use. It was especially effective as a coating for automotive chassis.

This durability extended to the formulation of a wide range of "oil base" utility coatings, and its superiority for weathering and wearability has certainly been proven through the last 70+ years. It remains to be seen whether it will perform better through centuries than the materials and methods developed for oil paining over 500 years ago, but it's likely.

Avoiding delamination depends upon two factors. One is the obvious difference in application. Fine art paintings are never (one hopes!) subjected to the weathering and wear which utility coatings are, so not sanding between coats will cause a ready, obvious failure on, say a farm tractor, which is subjected to an environment an easel painting never will be.

Second, all is well so long as the work is produced entirely wet-in-wet, or overpainted during the brief "touch-dry" interval in which the "skin" of wet paint can yet be permeated by the vehicle in the overpainting, thus resulting in the homogenous melding of layers, rather than two "strata" separated by the formation of a cured alkyd resin layer.

Realizing contributions to fora such as this ever amount to nothing more than choosing to believe who is lying to you at the moment, I can only say that my observations are the result of 40 years of painting with a wide variety of materials, the examination of a fairly broad report of use by other professionals, and my own inquiry (however unscientifically proven) into the physical and chemical makeup of the materials which have come my way. I think artists of worth should know fully the properties of the paints they use, and should not be deceived by the claims of manufacturers and suppliers, who more often than not (particularly the past 30+ years) are far more concerned with their "bottom line" than in providing artists with proven, quality materials.

Marvin Mattelson · 09-27-2011, 01:40 PM

I had the unfortunate and horrifying experience of having a painting in which I had used an alkyd medium delaminate. Since then I have stuck with linseed oil.

Richard Budig · 09-27-2011, 04:43 PM

Maybe that's where I went RIGHT with this goofy stuff . . . painting over still slightly tacky work from the day before. I paint from around 9 until around 2 or 3 almost ever day. My work is touch-dry when I start out each day, but I can "feel" that it wouldn't take much disturb what's underneath . . . a little turp or thinner on a bristle brush, probably. But, too my mind, I paint into alkyd-dried paint that is barely more than 12 to 18 hours old. Perhaps this is the reason I have never had a delamination problem.

Meera Bakshi · 10-18-2011, 05:45 PM

Dear experienced friends,
For the sack of trying something new, I applied a thin layer of Linseed oil mixed with Turpentine on the hard surface canvas panel board. This I tried for the first time. Somehow the layer remains wet and can not proceed to add more details to my work. Any idea how long it would take to dry? Or this is not the way to apply a layer in the first place?
I don't mind wiping out completely and tray all over again...though I hate to loose wonderful expression I got on this portrait.

I would appreciate your response.

Richard Budig · 10-18-2011, 06:01 PM

How far along are you with this painting? just started . . . half way . . . almost finished? Where is the black passage? Somewhere it can be wiped down and allowed to dry for awhile. Did you use straight black?

My experience is that there are few places, except the pupils of the eye that are totally black. Of course, I tend to use Liquin, which will dry up the ocean (joke) I think. But, if you use oil as your medium, you could do several things, such as manufacture a black from something like burnt umber and a deep blue. Burnt umber dries quickly. For a warm black you could use burnt sienna and black . . . the burnt sienna dried rather quickly.

It it were me, and the painting was not finished, I would wipe it down and repaint that passage. You say you don't want to ruin the expression on the face . . . did you use that much black in the face?

Again, from my experience, black of any kind, if I'm going to use it at all, is best used in small amounts to tone down another color, in which case, the other colors it is mixed with will dry sooner, pulling the black along with it to a dry condition.

Meera Bakshi · 10-18-2011, 08:23 PM

Hello Richard, Wow, thanks for such a prompt response! I do not have used any black at all! And the face that I have have very thin layer of light shades of white, pink etc...of a fair skin tone...I would say the face is 85 % done .
do you have skype or google talk than we can just discuss and I can show you my this work that has a problem of drying?