Galkyds and Liquin

[Alex Sunder]

Hello all.

I

[Richard Bingham]

Alex, before one embraces alkyd materials as ancillary to traditional oil painting techniques, it would be better to have a full knowledge of the materials and methods which have resulted in the heritage of paintings 300 years old and upwards which have come down to us from the masters.

Alkyd materials are synthetic resins. The name is a combination of the basic components, an alcohol and an acid. The original nomenclature was "al-cid" to reflect this. The compound was discovered in the mid 1930's and shortly thereafter applied to automotive coatings successfully. It has proven to be a useful and durable "genus" of paint . . . for utility coatings.

In combination with the oils normally associated with oil painting, delamination of paint layers is a definite probability unless the paint layers are mechanically scuffed or abraded to supply a mechanical "key" for subsequent applications to adhere to. Alkyd materials probably pose no particular difficulties if one works strictly a premier coup i.e., finishing a painting wet-in-wet in one sitting.

"Glazing" is another can of worms, regardless of the methods or mediums employed. For some, a "glaze" entails a very "fat" application of colored varnish, somewhat akin to a layer of grape jelly applied to a peanut-butter sandwich. To others, a glaze is a transparent application of full-bodied pigment which is manipulated with brushes, rags or fingers to accomplish the intended results. The latter is more in keeping with the methods of the "old masters" and is better practice from the standpoint of longevity and producing a soundly made painting.

[Alex Sunder]

Thanx for your input Richard.

I find very confusing that theres so many different opinions on the materials subject. You can find people who will defend and encourage the use of something, while others will definetly disagree.

Trough the web i found a place where some people found Liquin with a "drag" propertie, while others found "silky".

About the "layers" peeling off when using alkyd

[Richard Bingham]

The best place to check out the properties of alkyd materials is from the source. The prime manufacturers of alkyd resins provide tech sheets which note increased de-lamination of alkyd paints with the admixture of linseed oil, and all prescribe the necessity of "sanding" between coats to insure proper adhesion. It is not the nature of the material to allow for solvent transfers and chemical bonds which occur when natural resins are employed in oil painting.

You will find that painters seem to form an emotional attachment to the materials they prefer, which appeals to logic or scientific evidence often cannot deter. I'll admit I'm no exception. Read the thread "Lovely Alizarin" which both proves the point, and offers a reasonable answer. If one is concerned with permanence, the burden of proof lies with any materials or methods that enter the picture after 1630. Oil painting was perfected even before that date, to which the great number of 500 year old paintings attest. Why look further?

[Sharon Knettell]

Alex,

I have used it in a turpentine wash to tone my canvas to get rid of the white when I am in a hurry.

Richard, any thoughts on that?

A good friend of mine has paintings he did ten years ago that have yellowed. He had used them primarily as a glazing medium.

[Alex Sunder]

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts Sharon.

Got your point about using the old, traditional materials Richard.

Wouldnt be fair to have this companies advertise AS WELL the flaws of their mediums?

Thanks again,
Alex

[Gary Hoff]

Originally Posted by Alex Sunder

.....Wouldnt be fair to have this companies advertise AS WELL the flaws of their mediums?

Fair perhaps, but highly unlikely. The folks who sell certain items (e.g. artist materials) have no vested interest in warning. Furthermore, it's important to recognize that simply because a company sells a product they may not be the manufacturers. Most linseed oil, for example, is made by one or two companies (Cargill, for example) and not by art materials companies. Unfortunately, alkyd resins have been shown to be problematic by the people who do make them.

[Richard Bingham]

Originally Posted by Gary Hoff

. . . The folks who sell certain items (e.g. artist materials) have no vested interest in warnin. . . .

Gary, that's for sure! It gets even worse. The folks who sell (and manufacture) art supplies all too often have no knowledge of the procedures and processes artist use, much less of the problems they are likely to encounter in the studio.

In fairness, the fact of the matter is that good results are the provence of the craftsman. Regardless of quality or appropriateness of application, there is no painting material that can't be misused to the point of failure.

Sharon, toning a canvas by staining is, of course, a very agreeable way to begin painting. Since I feel strongly that alkyds and traditional oil painting materials are not compatible, I do the same thing, only using a wee bit of black oil to promote drying and to be sure that dilution with turps has not compromised the binding of pigment thinned to that extent.